Early Fox A Grade repaired by Savage?

[Cat955]

Hello, I am looking at an early Fox A grade for sale at a local pawn shop. The gun is in very nice condition and appears to be all original. The serial number is 2113 or 2118. The barrel has the correct barrel address for an early gun but it also has "12 ga - 2 3/4 in. chamber" stamped on the left barrel below the A H FOX GUN CO PHILA PA. This stamping looks quite different from the barrel address. From my limited research it appears that this may be an indication that the gun may have been sent back to Savage for repair at some time. The only other letter markings on the barrel flats are the letter A and the stamped letters JS in a circle. Is there any definitive documentation or anecdotal accounts that Savage required the "12 ga - 2 3/4 in. chamber" be marked on early guns that were serviced or repaired by them? Thanks in advance for your help?

[vaturkey]

I think you nailed it. Gun was sent to Savage for work and they extended the chambers and marked it as such on the left barrel near the breech. I think if the barrels could not be extended for safety reasons, the customer had the option of just having them returned unaltered, or having a new set of Savage barrels fitted to the gun at a discounted rate.

Least that's what I recall.

[Cat955]

Thank you sir! Do you know if there is any source that may have that as a documented requirement? I have found a couple of internet post that seem to corroborate this but nothing from a company source. If I purchase this I am planning to submit the serial number information to see if the shotgun was sent in for repair. Does anyone think that having this added roll stamp hurts the collectible aspect of this piece if it cannot be documented that it was done by Savage? Regardless, it will be a great field gun in very high condition!! Asking price is very reasonable.

[Researcher]

[Cat955]

Amazing! I am always "not surprised" that you have the information I needed! Will there ever be a "Researchers" database that we can subscribe to!! Thanks again...Double Gun Awesome!!

[Gsheller]

Cat955,
Did the odd barrel stamp look like this?

The photo is from my newly-purchased first Fox for which I have no history other than the attached factory card (factory letter is on order.)

Front Card.JPG (52.16 KiB) Viewed 5384 times

So I am also wondering if my gun may have been sent back to Savage - it has several other components that do not look like an original Philadelphia A Grade, especially the stock and forend.

[Researcher]

Early A-Grade 2141 has the chamber length marking and sports a Savage style stock.

Serial number 106 got the new Savage barrels and ejectors sometime between 1947 and 1961 when Savage was at Chicopee Falls.

[Cat955]

Yes Sir, that is the exact look of the stamping on the left barrel. The barrel flats may also have the initials JS in a circle. Thanks for the great photo and that is one beautiful shotgun!!

[Cat955]

I had a friend email that in In Michael McIntosh's book A.H. Fox: The Finest Gun in the World, there is a discussion that the "JS" in a circle is attributed to an inspector at Savage, Mr. Joseph Santoro and is found on page 127 (in the 1994 Revised Edition). I do not have the book so if anyone does have it maybe they could confirm?

[Cat955]

Researcher inspired me to find a letter to go with my new A H Fox! This letter is from the 70's and the price went up from $10 to $15.

[Silvers]

I had a friend email that in In Michael McIntosh's book A.H. Fox: The Finest Gun in the World, there is a discussion that the "JS" in a circle is attributed to an inspector at Savage, Mr. Joseph Santoro and is found on page 127 (in the 1994 Revised Edition). I do not have the book so if anyone does have it maybe they could confirm?

Just a comment on the "JS in a circle", Savage Fox at Utica proof tested its chamber work and stamped what I've long called the "SP/Oval" proof mark to indicate same. That's SP inside an oval not a circle. If the SP is viewed upside down it could be read as JS. frank

Edit: PIC ADDED ..... on this one the top of the P was lightly struck.
.

[Stan Hillis]

I had a friend email that in In Michael McIntosh's book A.H. Fox: The Finest Gun in the World, there is a discussion that the "JS" in a circle is attributed to an inspector at Savage, Mr. Joseph Santoro and is found on page 127 (in the 1994 Revised Edition). I do not have the book so if anyone does have it maybe they could confirm?

Just a comment on the "JS in a circle", Savage Fox at Utica proof tested its chamber work and stamped what I've long called the "SP/Oval" proof mark to indicate same. That's SP inside an oval not a circle. If the SP is viewed upside down it could be read as JS. frank

Agree, and I always thought the SP stood for Savage Proof.

[Gsheller]

Here is a pic of the SP oval on the Philadelphia A grade in my earlier post - interesting that it was also lightly struck in a very similar way as the one in Silvers’ photo.
Also curious whether the “H” stamp is original, or from it’s trip to Savage?

[Cat955]

Thanks for everyone in sharing the photos! I am a more of a visual learner and photos have a great way of backing up the information that is provided by all the decades of knowledge we have on this forum!!!. I have been collecting the old pre-war Browning Auto 5's and the L.C. Smith guns for a few years so I appreciate all the feedback on my newest double gun disease affliction. I have more questions... but I will finish my research in the forum first. Thanks again!!