Ammo question

[Fin2Feather]

I'd like to find some 20ga bismuth or other no-tox shells that won't tear my old Foxes apart so I can take my 20's to South Dakota next trip, even though I might have to take out a 2nd mortgage if I find 'em! Most of what I see are 3"; are there really that many 3" 20ga shotguns out there? I bought a flat of Kent 16ga-ers several years ago (can't believe what I paid for them compared to the prices I'm seeing!); they're a little stiffer than I'd like at 1300fps but for the few shots we get on restricted ground I figure they're OK. Anyway, any suggestions appreciated; thanks...

[Researcher]

are there really that many 3" 20ga shotguns out there?

Both Jack O'Connor and Francis E. Sell touted the 3-inch 20-gauge in the 1950s to 1980s and the North American nimrod got on the band wagon big time.

[Silvers]

You'll want to measure the chambers on your Fox(es). The earlier ones were made for 2-1/2" shells which were then standard and I've measured 20g Fox chambers as short as 2-1/4" with my precision gauge. A tiny bit of overlap (into the forcing cone) is OK but not let's say firing a 2-3/4" shell in a 2-1/4 or 2-3/8" long chamber. That will raise pressure quite a bit which in turn shortens the timing/duration of recoil impulse on the stock. At this point in time you'll probably have to load your own bismuth into appropriate length hulls; and methinks the purchase of a good used single-stage MEC press and some limited powder and components for your hunting use will net out at about the cost of buying and shipping a flat of RST bismuth 20g short shells, if they were available.

Just an aside, I don't think Cactus Jack and Francis were far off; personally I like the modern 20-gauge/3-inch shell for use in appropriate shotguns. Yah, I know that goes contrary to the "short shot string" concept pushed by Western Cartridge with seemingly endless adverts for its Super-X's back in the day. frank

[Stan Hillis]

My best friend in eastern Arkansas, with whom I hunted just a couple weeks ago, used a new three inch chambered 20 ga. Benelli the last morning. It is a custom gun built gun by Rob Robertson Gun Works in Batesville, AR. He was using it maybe twenty yards down a tree line from where I was using my Super Fox with BOSS bismuth. I don't know what he was shooting in it but it could not have possibly been steel. He said it was "super bismuth" but I don't know what he meant by that. All I know is I was dumbfounded at the range he was killing big mallards, and I mean d-e-a-d. He never had to shoot a cripple on the water that morning, that I recall. It was really eye-opening for me. He told me afterwards that those guns have become increasingly popular in his area for the late goose season where they shoot snows in great numbers.

Im not advocating that anyone use these in vintage guns, but I do in my Super Fox. Here they are in 3" 20 ga.

https://bossshotshells.com/products/20- ... -1-8-oz-3/

[Researcher]

Yah, I know that goes contrary to the "short shot string" concept pushed by Western Cartridge with seemingly endless adverts for its Super-X's back in the day. frank

Yet it was the Olins of Western Cartridge Co. that introduced the 20-gauge 3-inch Magnum in 1954.

When introduced, the only brand of ammunition cataloging the 3-inch 20-gauge Magnum loads was Western Cartridge Co. and they only offered two loads, both with Lubaloy shot -- L20M6 with 1 1/8-ounce of shot --

Super-X 20-gauge, 3-inch, L20M6.png (562.03 KiB) Viewed 1446 times

and L20MH4 with 1 3/16-ounce of shot --

Super-X 20-gauge, 3-inch Magnum, #4 Lubaloy.jpg (89.97 KiB) Viewed 1446 times

Even though the big 1955 Winchester gun catalog lists Super-Speed no Winchester ammo catalog from 1954 to 59 I've seen lists such a load.

For 1960 all four big ammunition companies cataloged the 3-inch 20-gauge magnum with 1 1/4 ounce of chilled shot.

REMINGTON EXPRESS 20-gauge, 3-inch Magnum, #4.png (405.81 KiB) Viewed 1446 times

[Jim Cloninger]

My 20 gauge M21 was made in 1953, 1 year too early to be chambered for 3 inch. Jim

[Researcher]

From the introduction of the Model 21 through at least 1946, one could order the option of 3-inch chambers for any gauge. The 3-inch chambering option in the 1950 through January 1955 Winchester catalogs states 12-gauge only. From September 1955 through 1959 the listing again states Chambering for 3-inch shells with no gauges mentioned.

The January 1954 Winchester catalog is just when the Model 21 Magnum Gun in 20-gauge became a catalog symbol item.