Fox Sterlingworth 16 gauge

[edcknives]

Nice example. If I'm reading it right, that is the lowest serial number Savage marked 16-gauge FOX STERLINGWORTH I've recorded. While I've recorded quite the transition range in 12- and 20-gauges, until seeing this gun I had a nice clean break in the 16-gauges. All the guns I've previously recorded in the 365xxx and 366xxx range have been A.H. Fox Gun Co. and all from 367xxx on up Savage Arms Corp.

I agree that making the chokes suitable to your needs on these entry-level guns is a reasonable thing to do. You might want to attend one of the vintage shotgun events at places like Hausmann's or Rock Mountain and discuss what you want to do with knowledgeable members there. One of our members is extremely well verse in Fox chokes. Perhaps he will chime in here.

So after a fair amount of research and reading it would appear that the "desirability" of this being a Savage marked Sterlingworth vs a AH Fox Gun Co marked Sterlingworth shotgun is diminished but what I would like to know if it is any different mechanically / structurally? Basically when did Savage start reducing quality with their manufacturing of these transitionally?

[Champada]

My Utica Sterlingworth in 16 gauge mfg. in 1934 is chambered 2 3/4”. I could be wrong, but most all Philadelphia, pre savage sterlingworth’s I’ve seen for sale have shorter chamber length.

[Researcher]

The only two A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogs that mention chamber lengths are the 1913 and 1914 big grey "A Fox Gets the Game" catalogs. They state that 16-gauge guns are chambered for the, then standard, 2 9/16-inch shells. With the policy of holding chambers 1/8-inch shorter than the intended shell, most measure 2 7/16-inch. I have a 1933 vintage A-Grade with 30-inch barrels ordered chambered for 2 3/4-inch shells, but the chambers measure a scant 2 5/8-inch. Makes it appear to me that in 1933, Savage was still adhering to the old A.H. Fox Gun Co. policy of holding chambers 1/8-inch short of the intended shell.

[Champada]

The only two A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogs that mention chamber lengths are the 1913 and 1914 big grey "A Fox Gets the Game" catalogs. They state that 16-gauge guns are chambered for the, then standard, 2 9/16-inch shells. With the policy of holding chambers 1/8-inch shorter than the intended shell, most measure 2 7/16-inch. I have a 1933 vintage A-Grade with 30-inch barrels ordered chambered for 2 3/4-inch shells, but the chambers measure a scant 2 5/8-inch. Makes it appear to me that in 1933, Savage was still adhering to the old A.H. Fox Gun Co. policy of holding chambers 1/8-inch short of the intended shell.

Researcher, if you don’t mind me asking, what shell length do you shoot in that gun? I’ll need to do some more digging, but as I’m starting to look into chamber lengths more it seems most modern 2 3/4” chambered guns actually measure closer to 3”. I verified with a gunsmith today my sterlingworth is indeed chambered 2 3/4” (according to his gauge). Looking at my unfired 16 gauge shell it measure 2 1/4” … theoretically leaving enough room for the crimp to open up.

[Researcher]

Most modern plastic, nominally 2 3/4-inch shells, are well shy of 2 3/4-inch fired length. I mostly have used my 7/8-ounce, 1200 fps, reloads in Federal hulls in the A-Grade I mentioned above.

[cockerman]

I recently acquired an A grade 12g with mod and full chokes . It's a high condition gun and wanted something to take the load off a few other I have . Using it for sporting clays and dog training . It grinds up the clay and gives the dogs their due . The first four rounds I put through it were at a greased pattern board . Saw enough to make me happy ..... Don't think I'll mess with the choking ....

[Foxnut]

Just my two cents worth. This is a very nice Sterlingworth 16 that is between collector and shooting grade. From the pics appears to have a good portion of the original case coloring left. The “flaking” of the stock finish is common for this grade. If you open the chokes and have the wood refinished to suit you then just know if you ever do sell it it will be strictly a shooter level gun (albeit a nice one). If you are not concerned about it or never plan to sell it have at it. Like Frank, if it were me I’d leave it as is. IMHO! Brett

[edcknives]

Thanks for all the thoughtful input and lends me to leave it as it is. Sometimes I need the reminder(s) such as here that the evil of just fine is "perfect".

[simcgunner]

A 16 GA sterly is a great upland gun. Since you shoot with the gun and Its not a rare collectable why not refinish it and rechoke it to maximize its usefulness and finish it to please your taste. There's a lot of Guns out there. In my opinion. All spreader loads I have tested in foxes are worthless and leave crappy patterns. With proper choking and 2 1/2in 16 GA RST ammo the sterly will give wonderful patterns. my 12 GA was chambered for 2 3/4 ammo and I left the 16 GA at 2 1/2. just my opinion. If you bought the gun from CSMC you already paid a premium price for the gun and will never be able to recoup the cost anyway. might as well make changes to make it more suitable for use. If you decide to sell it in a few years you would do better selling it on Gi Or Gb. I have sold several modified Guns on those sites for much more than I would have on a collectors site.

[JAH1018]

I am new to this forum. If this is not the place to ask this Q, please direct me to the right place or people. Thanks.

Does anyone know what formula I need to reload shells for a 1928 FOX SxS 16 ga that requires 2 1/2" shells? I have searched for a yr and got too many conflicting answers from powder manufacturers to reloading specialists.

[simcgunner]

there is a fellow over on 16 gage collectors forum with a spreadsheet of various loads. I believe the loads Tha have been tested are marked. also Ballistic products has some data .

[JAH1018]

Ballistic products says to use 800X powder but it is not only no longer made, Hondgen says not to use that in in old FOX

[JAH1018]

smcgunner...where do I find this 16 gauge collectors forum?

[Jeff S]

Facebook, 16 gauge traditions society

[DarylC]

You can find 16ga stuff at 24hour campfire.com or the 16ga society.