Fox Sterlingworth 16 gauge

[edcknives]

I have been a fan of upland hunting for many years and now that I am semiretired going to pursue that more regularly. I have quite a few 16 gauges but my prize possession is a Fox Sterlingworth 16 28” M&F that I acquired a few years ago. Few questions I would like to submit;

1) I have a number of American Classic Damascus SXS’s and stocked up on RST ammo for years prior to there relative Covid decimation. When this does run out are light load 16’s 2 3/4 okay to fire in these? I retrieve and keep all my shot shells after firing them for potential reload if I have to. I have spoken with them at length and have what to them is considered appropriate pressure curve powder..

I paid all the Money for this one as I live near CT Shotgun/Galazan which is where I found it. Compared to most of what they have this is dime store candy but to me it’s a prize possession. It’s original, has four pound triggers, bright and mirror smooth bores. Second question;

2) The stock Varnish as with most of these field grade guns is partially gone and want to know if refinishing it ( having it done professionally) would alter the value appreciably?

I live within driving distance of Gunsmithing, LLC IN Southport Ct where Mitch who is one of the vestiges of a becoming bygone era is available to do the work. He is one of those who has probably forgotten more than most will ever remember on his craft. He’s checked, serviced and repaired a few of my vintage pieces over the years.

3) Similar question to above if after shooting it I want to have the F choke opened to IM would that also effect the value?

Being a filed grade gun in VGC from my research here and elsewhere I am under the impression probably not but would like this communities feedback directly.

[edcknives]

[44whiskey]

Edcknives, welcome to Fox collectors, sounds like that SW will be under your care for life. if that is the case and it were mine i would not hesitate to refinish and make chokes more useful . it may reduce some collector interest but again it may be more desireable as a shooter to the right buyer. hopefully more knowledgeable members will chime in,again welcome and enjoy that sweet 16 ga ,and thanks for posting, Fred

[vaturkey]

Wonderful little gun. As its not a graded gun and its not in mint condition, I'd have the chokes opened up if you wish and have the stock cleaned up. Others may feel differently, but I think both of those things would make it perform better and look better.

[Researcher]

Nice example. If I'm reading it right, that is the lowest serial number Savage marked 16-gauge FOX STERLINGWORTH I've recorded. While I've recorded quite the transition range in 12- and 20-gauges, until seeing this gun I had a nice clean break in the 16-gauges. All the guns I've previously recorded in the 365xxx and 366xxx range have been A.H. Fox Gun Co. and all from 367xxx on up Savage Arms Corp.

I agree that making the chokes suitable to your needs on these entry-level guns is a reasonable thing to do. You might want to attend one of the vintage shotgun events at places like Hausmann's or Rock Mountain and discuss what you want to do with knowledgeable members there. One of our members is extremely well verse in Fox chokes. Perhaps he will chime in here.

[edcknives]

Nice example. If I'm reading it right, that is the lowest serial number Savage marked 16-gauge FOX STERLINGWORTH I've recorded. While I've recorded quite the transition range in 12- and 20-gauges, until seeing this gun I had a nice clean break in the 16-gauges. All the guns I've previously recorded in the 365xxx and 366xxx range have been A.H. Fox Gun Co. and all from 367xxx on up Savage Arms Corp.

My research indicated to me that it dates to 1929 according to the serial number. I don't know if the lower serial number for a 16 gauge adds inherent value or not, but glad to know it's has some relative uniqueness.

[edcknives]

The question regarding the ammo of 2 1/2" vs 2 3/4" what do you say?

[Silvers]

Nice gun! Just my opinions here. I believe these old Foxes whether Sterlingworth or Graded have a “spirit” - for want of a better word - that took decades to build via many hunts, hands and adventures; and I resist changing their cosmetics with rebluing and stock refinishing. Likewise I stay with original chambers and will buy or reload short shells for the factory chambers.

On the other hand, on upland hunting Foxes I’ll alter the chokes to suit their regular use, and my favorite 16b combo for grouse and pheasants here in PA is Light Mod and Improved-Mod. As you may know, all Foxes except for some late Utica guns were made with full-tapered chokes and any Fox choke that has a parallel run at the muzzle screams that it’s been opened up post-factory by a gunsmith. Hopefully not canted and cockeyed with the bore(s). If properly done that’s not a big deal for entry or low Grade Foxes. Nonetheless I like to keep things as original as possible and for that reason I had tapered choke reamers made up to match the nominal Fox choke tapers for 12-16-20 gauges. My altered chokes will pass for factory work and that’s what I want.

Sorry for the diatribe and back to your choking question. If you want Imp-Mod in that left barrel, go for it. However I’d suggest you ask your old time gunsmith how he does chokes and keeps them dead nuts in line with the bore.

frank

[edcknives]

Nice gun! Just my opinions here. I believe these old Foxes whether entry level or Graded have a “spirit” - for want of a better word - that took decades to build via many hunts, hands and adventures; and I resist changing their cosmetics with rebluing and stock refinishing. Likewise I stay with original chambers and will buy or reload short shells for the factory chambers.

On the other hand, on upland hunting Foxes I’ll alter the chokes to suit their regular use, and my favorite 16b combo for grouse and pheasants here in PA is Light Mod and Improved-Mod. As you may know, all Foxes except for very late Utica guns were made with full-tapered chokes and any Fox choke that has a parallel run at the muzzle screams that it’s been opened up post-factory by a gunsmith. Hopefully not canted and cockeyed with the bore(s). If properly done that’s not a big deal for entry or low Grade Foxes. Nonetheless I like to keep things as original as possible and for that reason I had tapered choke reamers made up to match the nominal Fox choke tapers for 12-16-20 gauges. My altered chokes will pass for factory work and that’s what I want.

Sorry for the diatribe and back to your choking question. If you want Imp-Mod in that left barrel, go for it. However I’d suggest you ask your old time gunsmith how he does chokes and keeps them dead nuts in line with the bore.

frank

Thanks for the thoughtful reply and would be confident that Mitch at Gun Smithing, LLC would bore/ream them accordingly. He does most of the custom work for the shotgunners in CT and Galazan/CSMC refers to him for that type of work regularly. I personally don't like gloss/varnished guns and would just consider doing a hand rubbed oil finish if I go that route but as you say the developed character it's taken to achieve its outward persona is something to be respected. I fortunately have many cases/boxes of RST short shells and not that hard to manufacture short shells if and when that time should come. I will most likely have the left barrel stretched to IM and keep it at that.

[Fin2Feather]

I think folks worry way too much about chokes etc. You can make pretty significant adjustments with the shells you shoot. I like Frank's quote about the "spirit" of these old guns, and that carries through with the chokes, etc. for me. When I think of all the shots made and missed with these old boomers just the way they are I don't see any reason to change them. JMO.

[edcknives]

Lots of great and thoughtful feedback, thanks!
I’ll just leave it as it is for now. I need to look into how to modify/reload shells to open up the pattern mostly for the right barrel. I wish I would’ve done my research earlier on and gotten some of those from RST when they were still producing those.

I have a boatload of paper shot cards and felt wads in 16 gauge, I’ll have to do my research on how to use those for what I’m describing. Any sources on other types of wads that would be used for that purpose is thankfully received.

[vaturkey]

I think folks worry way too much about chokes etc. You can make pretty significant adjustments with the shells you shoot. I like Frank's quote about the "spirit" of these old guns, and that carries through with the chokes, etc. for me. When I think of all the shots made and missed with these old boomers just the way they are I don't see any reason to change them. JMO.

Agree with you in this particular case. However, I have adjusted chokes on a couple of Sterly's due to what I hunt. 90 Percent of the time its Woodcock in essentially a phone booth. I would say most of my shots are a 15 yards and most of the time there is no chance for a follow up. A Woodcock centered with pretty much any choke at 15 yards can be pretty messy. Its even more messy if you are shooting a full or mod choke. For that reason my Chokes have been opened up to what Fox did their Skeet and Upland guns, which is about .005 and .015. 90 percent of the time I can only get one shot off. Can be interesting shooting Woodcock in Virginia.

[44whiskey]

that is a beautiful picture Tom, i always enjoy pics of your customs. Sophie looks in good form. thanks for posting,Fred

[Fin2Feather]

I think folks worry way too much about chokes etc. You can make pretty significant adjustments with the shells you shoot. I like Frank's quote about the "spirit" of these old guns, and that carries through with the chokes, etc. for me. When I think of all the shots made and missed with these old boomers just the way they are I don't see any reason to change them. JMO.

Agree with you in this particular case. However, I have adjusted chokes on a couple of Sterly's due to what I hunt. 90 Percent of the time its Woodcock in essentially a phone booth. I would say most of my shots are a 15 yards and most of the time there is no chance for a follow up. A Woodcock centered with pretty much any choke at 15 yards can be pretty messy. Its even more messy if you are shooting a full or mod choke. For that reason my Chokes have been opened up to what Fox did their Skeet and Upland guns, which is about .005 and .015. 90 percent of the time I can only get one shot off. Can be interesting shooting Woodcock in Virginia.

Not many woodcock in these parts (read none!) so I'll defer to your expertise !

[DarylC]

I think folks worry way too much about chokes etc. You can make pretty significant adjustments with the shells you shoot. I like Frank's quote about the "spirit" of these old guns, and that carries through with the chokes, etc. for me. When I think of all the shots made and missed with these old boomers just the way they are I don't see any reason to change them. JMO.

I totally agree with you Phil and Tom. I see those chokes in those old guns as one of their best attributes and quite a bit of expertise went into their production. Hence the almost religious reverence of a Becker choked gun. Back in the day when those guns were new I'm sure a boatload of game was shot with tight chokes. I know Frank has perfected a way to duplicate those chokes and has used it to his benefit chasing grouse. I found the best "spreader" loads for tight chokes if you think you need them, is to simply cut the petals off a plastic wad and use 8 1/2 or 9 shot as they contain less antimony. Try it, you would be surprised at the result. YMMV.