patterns with 23/4" shells in short chambers

[Birdshooter46]

Gentlemen :
I am aware that I can use 23/4" plastic-hulled shells in my 1909 A Grade with its original length chambers. Does anyone know if this practice adversely affects the shot patterns versus using short shells?

One other question: Mine is an A grade 12 gauge, with about 97 per cent original bluing, 80+ per cent varnish, about 25% case colors and pristine bores. I have a Callahan letter and it was shipped September 1909 and is still in original configuration (possible replacement buttplate). I have thought about having the right barrel opened to improved cylinder and the forcing cones lengthened to 2 3/4" (it is presently full and modified). I bird hunt with it and presently handload or buy spreader loads. If I did this would it severely affect the value? Thanks for your advice!

Mike Ruff

[Researcher]

The early-style A-Grade 12-gauge is the most common graded Ansley H. Fox shotgun. Unless in exceptionally high original condition or in a scarce or desirable configuration (straight grip with 26-inch or 32-inch barrels) I wouldn't hesitate to modify it to my shooting needs. The two shotguns I've hunted with the most for more than fifty years, my 1914 vintage 12-gauge and 1913 vintage 20-gauge have had the chokes opened. I had the right barrel of the 12-gauge, shipped improved modified in both barrels, opened to improved cylinder when I got the gun in 1966. The 20-gauge had already been opened to ic & mod by an old Annapolis, Maryland, quail hunter when I got the gun in 1992.

I'm sure others will have different opinions.

[vaturkey]

My opinion as always is if the gun is a common gun and is a shooter do as you wish. That said even a common gun if its in pristine condition I wouldn't mess with. With how you describe your gun, I'd have no problem in opening up the chokes, and I'd extend the chambers if there was plenty of barrel wall thickness in front of the forcing cones.

[Silvers]

A comparison may help here. IMO you seem to be overly concerned with value.

Let us say you own a new fancy SUV or hot 4x4 truck with a MSRP in the high 50k's and in three years and in good condition it will bring maybe 30K on a trade. You live in a state where society demands they coat the roads with salt and "anti skid" in the winter; the former corrodes the undercarriage and the latter dings up the front end of vehicles. Do you bunker up and keep your ride in the garage all winter so you can recover very top value when you trade? Most of us won't do that; we'll suck up the ~30k loss and use the vehicle in all weather and as intended.

I know all comparisons lack but methinks it's a no-brainer with a relatively common Fox shotgun even in higher condition. My advice, don't get caught up in the collector thing in hopes of (maybe) recovering a very few more bucks when the gun inevitably moves on to be sold. Net, my advice is to get the chokes opened to whatever suits your hunting and shooting. Besides if properly done there are a very few people who would know or even care that the chokes on a common Fox don't match the letter. Better to shoot a Fox you have confidence in. All this is of course my opinion.

frank

[ROMAC]

Well said Frank.

[Birdshooter46]

Hey Researcher, Va Turkey, Frank and Romac:

Thanks so much for your sound advice! On reflection, I agree it's a "no brainer" , especially since I will probably pass the gun down to my son or grandson, and don't plan to sell it. I'm taking "Miss Ansley" to Nebraska in a couple of weeks, and have some doves and quail to shoot around home but after the season I'll see about having her chokes and chambers done. These old classic doubles were made well enough to use and bring pleasure and good memories for generations and not just to be admired in a gun cabinet. A reasonable alteration to enhance the pleasure of using it is justified. The thought reminds me of a Guy Clark song about "Stuff you don't hang on the wall".
Thanks again for your guidance.

Mike

[DarylC]

Mike;
All the above gave you sound advice but if I may add my $.02, just buy some reasonble loads and shoot that baby for a while before you do anything. You might be surprised at how well she performs in her current condition.

[snakeeater]

Yes to all the above.

[Birdshooter46]

Daryl,
That too is good advice. The old girl has performed well since I got her in 2015, often with spreader loads of both lengths. I'll be using her as is for a while yet, at least. She's in amazing shape after turning 111 years a little over a month ago. Ansley was right! Thanks again.

Mike