20 Gauge 7/8 oz VS 1 oz Sterlingworth

[Johnm11]

So, I picked up a 20 Gauge Sterlingworth this weekend. It was made in late 1913 or early 1914 and has 26" Barrels choked Cylinder/Modified. Barrel weight markings are not present but the assumptions are that they are very light barrels based on the overall feel of the shotgun. The chambers measure 2 3/4" (actually plus a fraction) on my chamber gauge. So I assume they were lengthened sometime in their 115 year history. First fire will be this Friday and I will start with the standard 7/8 oz target load. But I have to ask, what are the thoughts on shooting a 1 oz load through this shotgun. I'll know on Friday if I shoot it as well as the 12 gauge with a 1 oz payload.

I take terrible pictures, but here are some comparison photos next to my 28" 12 Gauge. I'll try to take some more over the next few days.

[vaturkey]

Appears to me based on the pics that your 20 gauge may have been pinned with wooden dowels to most likely repair a crack in the cheeks. If that is indeed the case I'd recommend you shoot quite lite loads and stay away from 1 oz loads. Also based on the picture taken from the top showing the lever, that a screw under the lever might not be tight. Could be wrong, but worth checking before you fire the gun.

[Johnm11]

Astute observation Vaturkey,

I was actually going to bring those plugs into this discussion. I have looked at those plugs with 10x magnification looking for any sign of cracking and can't see any. That doesn't mean that they aren't there but I can't see them. But that leaves the question of why they are there in the first place.

In 1913 the standard 20 gauge shell would have been 2 1/2", wouldn't it?

I haven't done a screw check or any disassembly on the shotgun yet. I will before i shoot it on Friday.

Thanks

John M
Mesa, AZ

[Jeff S]

John, that is a nice gun and you'll have a lot of fun with it. I own a 1918 Sterlingworth 20 ga. with 26" barrels and it is a delight to shoot. Like Tom (Vaturkey), I noticed the two plugs and concluded that the stock has been repaired. Regarding your question as to whether you should use 1 oz. load, I'm betting that a few people will say "why". A lot of the members like, and recommend, using light loads. After all, we're shooting these old guns for fun. Enjoy your new Sterly.

[Researcher]

It is a 99% certainty your 20-gauge Sterlingworth left North 18th Street and Windrim Avenue with 2 3/8 inch chambers, intended for 2 1/2 inch shells, which at that time carried a maximum load of 2 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 18-grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite pushing 7/8 ounce of shot.

But there were plenty of lighter 20-gauge loads as well --

When your Sterlingworth was nine years old, our ammunition companies changed all of this, introducing progressive burning smokeless powders which could move out a heavier, one ounce payload from the 20-gauge, at higher velocity then previously possible and at lower pressures.

Early Super-X 20-gauge box, Super Excellant.jpg (74.27 KiB) Viewed 7354 times

A steady diet of such loads may well be the reason for the pins in the wrist of your stock.

Then to add even more recoil forces to the slender wrists of old 20-gauge doubles, when your Sterlingworth was 41 years old, the 20-gauge 2 3/4 inch Magnum was introduced with 1 1/8 ounce of shot.

[Johnm11]

Thanks Jeff,

I fell in love with the gun on Saturday and had to figure out what was in my safe i could do without. But headed back on Sunday morning with the full intent of Buying that shotgun. When i checked it out on Sunday I actually noticed a rattle/vibration I didn't notice on Saturday. I bought it anyway just based on the feel and the price. As it turns out I was hearing the extractors vibrate and the ribs are just fine. I'll confirm on first fire on Friday.

The gun just fits me so well. Well, at least as best i can tell it is very comfortable to hold. That's one of the reasons I have scheduled a follow up lesson with my instructor on Friday. Give you a clue, I can close my eyes, pick up and shoulder the shotgun with one hand, open my eyes and have the correct sight picture. And, it is light enough I feel like I could shoot it with just the one hand.

I have been doing well with my 12 gauge Sterlingworth on the practice clays course with abut 70% hit rate. You'd have to understand how bad I was before I took a lesson to understand how good 70% is for me. So the thought was if i can shoot a similar 1 oz. load in the 20 I'd only be dealing with the lenghened shot stream on the 20 gauge with the same amount of pellets. I wouldn't mind shooting 2 1/2" paper shells out of it if I thought that was the right thing to do. They smell so good.

I'll spend some time tonight with a magnifier to see if i can find any signs of a crack repari. FYI - there is another plug on the other side. Here are some close up pictures of the areas around the plugs.

[Johnm11]

Some more plug photos:

[Johnm11]

Thank you Researcher,

That is information I did not have yet. I'll do some more research and it looks like this one will see a steady diet of 7/8 oz shells. With the extended chambers should i be looking at the 2 1/2" 3/4" oz. shells? I know RST makes them and probably others. Or will the modern 2 3/4" 7/8" shells at 1100 FPS duplicate the recoil of the shells the gun was designed for.

I want to shoot it but I don't want to abuse it. If I need to go to 2 1/2" paper shells with 3/4" payload to assure, as best possible, not damaging the gun, I'll do it.

[vaturkey]

RST 20 gauge loads that are either 3/4 oz or 7/8 oz is just the ticket for that gun. Pressures will be low and they work great. While they have some with paper hulls they also have plastic hulls as well and they are a bit cheaper and are still low pressure. IMO, you won't know how truly bad the crack was pre-wood plug fix unless you remove the buttstock from the action. Not hard to do with the proper screwdrivers. This on the home page is helpful. https://www.foxcollectors.com/mechanisms/disassembly

PS. Since you now have two Foxes, please consider being a member of the association. There are various forums available to members that can't be seen my non-members.

[Johnm11]

EDIT - vaturkey - I was typing as you replied.

So, a little research on the internet and the answer to my question would be MAYBE. A modern 2 3/4" shell producing 1100 FPS would actually probably be safe(r) in my 20 gauge. But they don't make modern 20 gauge shell at 1100 FPS. Apparently the modern 2 3/4" 20 gauge is 2 1/2 dram equivalent and produces a velocity of 1200 or so FPS with 7/8 oz. payload. The best I can come up with is that a 2 1/4 dram equivalent load produced a velocity of around 1120-1150 FPS with a 7/8 oz. payload. Although straight line physics may not apply here, it appears that the original shells the gun was designed for produced less 'STRESS', for lack of a better term, on the shotguns of the day than todays target loads would produce.

IIt sounds to me like it would be prudent to shoot the 2 1/2" RST shells in this shotgun in the long run. I'm still open to thoughts.

That will preclude me from shotting this one on Friday. RST indicates that they usually ship in 1-2 business days, but the mule cart they deliver on takes a week or more to arrive.

[Johnm11]

I am on RST's website and they currently don't have the 2 1/2" in either paper or plastic. As my chambers measure 2 3/4" are the 2 3/4" paper shells as appropriate? The reason I ask is that the 2 3/4" shell are the only shells they offer that actually provide the Dram Equivalent and it is listed as 2 1/2" Dram Equivalent. Oddly the velocity of the 2 3/4" shells are listed at 1125 FPS whic is 75 FPS lower than modern shells that you can buy at any retail outlet. Although I realize that modern powders aren't a straight line converstion due to the design of modern powders I would have expected the lower pressure shells to be 2 1/4" Drams Equivalent.

Am I over thinking this?

[vaturkey]

I'd give RST a call and see what they recommend. They can give you the pressures for all their 20 gauge loads. Less pressure the better for the old girl. I'm sure they have a low pressure 2 3/4" load that will work if they are out of stock on the shorter shells.

PS. They show these paper ones in stock: 20 Ga. • 2 1/2" • Paper-Fibre Wad • Vel. 1150 • 7/8 oz. Load - Box
Item #: BG.20.21/2.PFW.7/8.Box

[Johnm11]

I sent them an e mail before I left work. I must not have looked at all of the 2 1/2" versions.

Thanks.

[Johnm11]

RST replied. Maximum pressure for RST shells is 7200 psi.

John M
Mesa AZ

[vaturkey]

RST replied. Maximum pressure for RST shells is 7200 psi.

John M
Mesa AZ

That's why all of us with Classic doubles buy their shells by the case.