I lost my first set of barrels at the Vintager's Rio Brazos shoot last week. No harm done to anyone, the failure was in the last 3" of the left tube, but the cause of the failure is still somewhat of a mystery. The gun is a 12g Philly Sterlingworth ejector. The scenerio is: I was about to shoot the third pair of a 4 pair station when the trapper stopped me because "the rib on your gun is loose". Closer inspection showed the rib bent because the barrel had split. There was no abnormal noise, so abnormal vibration or any other visual or auditory clues that the barrel had let loose. I even broke that bird! I had cleared that barrel with a normal shot on the first pair and I had not left the shooting station so introducing any obstruction into the barrel (i.e. dipping the muzzel in the mud) is highly unlikely. Shells were Winchester Super Target, 1 1/8oz, 1200 fps factory loads. Not a real nasty load although I don't know what the pressure is for that load.
I know of a couple of other instances of barrels splitting with no apparent cause. Right now my best guess is that something from the shell, a piece of base wad maybe, did not clear the barrel. Another possibility is some fault in the barrel that has lasted from the 20's and just decided that its time had come. Barrel wall thickness was over .030" and there was no pitting, so this does not seem probable to me.
I'm interested in any ideas anyone has on what may have happened. I'd also be interested in any similar experience anyone has had with Sterlingworth barrels mysteriously failing. If anyone has a 28" or 30" set of 12g Sterlingworth barrels for sale, please contact me. I've shot many thousands of rounds through a variety of Sterlingworth barrels and this is the first failure I've ever had. I don't think the barrels were at fault but something went wrong and I'd sure like to find out what it was.
Cheers,
Split barrel blues
split barrel
Are you able to see the space between the barrels?Weakening of barrel walls through corrosion[rust] between the barrels is possible.I have pulled a few barrel sets apart and only found surface rust in most but I understand the corrosion can be worse.I wonder if anyone has done any studies of how common and to what extent this occurs and what factors control the results.
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66fordking
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:30 pm
- Location: Marana, AZ
Hi dbl-gun i did have something like that happen but not with a fox. it was a winchester 1200 and i was shooting winchester ammo. i was shooting doubles hit the first went to shoot the second. shot but it did not sound right ejected the shell looked down the barrel and it was buldged about 14" down. as i stared in disbelief the guy that was next to me seen what had happend he said when i shot the second time two wads flew out so the first one got stuck that was factory ammo! called winchester told them what had happend gave them the lot # off the box and they just said sorry nothing they could do. i had to buy a new barrel out of pocket. now i only shoot my reloads and have never had a problem if that box you had was from about 18 years ago maybe it was the same lot number? i hope this helps in some way. Tim
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Silvers
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DG, welcome to the Fox Forum. I sent you a PM. Sorry, I don't have a barrel set for sale; it's just a greeting from a guy you know.
Those Super Targets are relatively new shells, on the market a few years at the most. I don't know what the pressure is either. Burst barrels are sometimes really hard to figure out, especially when you break the bird - obviously the shot and wad cleared the barrel. I've heard a theory that the partial vacuum created when the charge and wad clears the barrel can suck a loose base wad up into the bore. However I'm not aware of any competent ballistics lab that has duplicated it during testing. Maybe it's the only plausible explanation for a split or burst in an otherwise sound barrel. I once witnessed a burst barrel that happened to a shooter in front of us who was using a Beretta semi-auto, a 390. The shot sounded normal and he broke the bird. He probably would have shot the second shot on report except the first one caused the forend to split and come apart. The gent wasn't hurt but he was shook up. The barrel was clear. We looked around for the ejected hull to confirm the loose base wad theory but there were several hundred laying on the ground and other squads were backing up behind us. It was during a tournament so we had to move on.
It would be nice if you had the hull for examination. Silvers
Those Super Targets are relatively new shells, on the market a few years at the most. I don't know what the pressure is either. Burst barrels are sometimes really hard to figure out, especially when you break the bird - obviously the shot and wad cleared the barrel. I've heard a theory that the partial vacuum created when the charge and wad clears the barrel can suck a loose base wad up into the bore. However I'm not aware of any competent ballistics lab that has duplicated it during testing. Maybe it's the only plausible explanation for a split or burst in an otherwise sound barrel. I once witnessed a burst barrel that happened to a shooter in front of us who was using a Beretta semi-auto, a 390. The shot sounded normal and he broke the bird. He probably would have shot the second shot on report except the first one caused the forend to split and come apart. The gent wasn't hurt but he was shook up. The barrel was clear. We looked around for the ejected hull to confirm the loose base wad theory but there were several hundred laying on the ground and other squads were backing up behind us. It was during a tournament so we had to move on.
It would be nice if you had the hull for examination. Silvers
Thank you all for the replies.
I measured the wall thickness of the split this morning and the thinnest it was, on the breech end of the choke cone, was .048". There was some of the usual surface rust between the barrels but nothing serious. I was also faced with a couple of hundred empties in the bucket so having that particular hull in hand was impossible. I had just ejected the shell and popped it in the bucket. Why I didn't grab one of them to section is as big a mystery as why the barrel let loose. I guess I was thinking about the gun more than thinking about the investigation.
I think there is merit in the "sucked basewad" theory and I'm going to buy a box of those shells and section one to see what sort of wad column Winchester uses and how well it is attached. The only reason I was shooting factories is that I was on the road and it made more sense to buy shells at the shoot than ship them from home. I normally shoot my own reloads and know what is inside and what pressure the load is working at.
I'm going to have the barrels looked at by a metalurgist who is also a shooter, and see what info he can come up with.
Finding a set of barrels to fit may be a bit of a search. I've got two other Fox 12's here, both graded guns. One could be made to fit, the other would take a lot of work. So coming up with a set of tubes that can be made to fit the frame will be the trick.
I'll keep y'all appraised of any new info.
Cheers,
DoubleGun
I measured the wall thickness of the split this morning and the thinnest it was, on the breech end of the choke cone, was .048". There was some of the usual surface rust between the barrels but nothing serious. I was also faced with a couple of hundred empties in the bucket so having that particular hull in hand was impossible. I had just ejected the shell and popped it in the bucket. Why I didn't grab one of them to section is as big a mystery as why the barrel let loose. I guess I was thinking about the gun more than thinking about the investigation.
I think there is merit in the "sucked basewad" theory and I'm going to buy a box of those shells and section one to see what sort of wad column Winchester uses and how well it is attached. The only reason I was shooting factories is that I was on the road and it made more sense to buy shells at the shoot than ship them from home. I normally shoot my own reloads and know what is inside and what pressure the load is working at.
I'm going to have the barrels looked at by a metalurgist who is also a shooter, and see what info he can come up with.
Finding a set of barrels to fit may be a bit of a search. I've got two other Fox 12's here, both graded guns. One could be made to fit, the other would take a lot of work. So coming up with a set of tubes that can be made to fit the frame will be the trick.
I'll keep y'all appraised of any new info.
Cheers,
DoubleGun
DoubleGun Cases