std chambers on Krupp barreled 12 gauge B grade Fox guns

[Germantown]

I am in contact with a dealer who lists on Guns International. He has an early grade B (not a BE) 12 DT with 30" Krupp Flustahl (Fluid Steel) barrels- and he lists it as a heavy duck gun- but he shows the weight at 7 lbs. 2 ounces- Questions arise- Did Fox put the numerical weight stamping on their barrels always, even on the Krupp tubes they imported from Germany (pre-Lusitania era of course)-- can a 12 gauge "duck gun" with 30" tubes weigh 7 lbs. 2 ounces from that era. He said the gun has 2 & 3/4" full length chambers, was this a factory special order perhaps? I thought the pre-1934 era Fox guns in 12 gauge had 2 & 5/8" chambers as std- the Super Fox HE being the obvious exception. This is an extractor gun- same exact Fox gun but with ejectors, aprox. what % more in pricing would ejectors bring over extractors?

[Big Friend Ten]

Any dealer who lists a 7 lb 2 oz gun as a "heavy duck gun" doesn't know a duck from a doughnut!

Or perhaps that dealer is not trustworthy?

Either way I'd look elsewhere.

[Researcher]

Some of the very early Ansley H. Fox doubles had Krupp barrels that in addition to the normal Krupp roll-stamp on the underside of the tubes had a second line that said HEAVY WEIGHT. I haven't really narrowed down when the 1 to 4 numbers began appearing on the Krupp tubes, but I do own Krupp barrel 12-gauges that are number 3 and number 4.

From what we know, the "standard" A.H. Fox Gun Co. 12-gauge chamber was 2 5/8 inch, intended for 2 3/4 inch paper shells. A.H. Fox Gun Co. would chamber for longer shells when the customer requested, so in theory, if a gun left the Fox factory in Philadelphia with a 2 3/4 inch chamber it was intended for 2 7/8 inch shells, and a gun intended for 3-inch shells would have a 2 7/8 inch chamber. My personal feeling is there are a whole lot more Ansley H. Fox shotguns out there being advertised with 2 3/4 inch chambers, than left North 18th Street and Windrim Avenue with 2 3/4 inch chambers. My feeling is worrying about that 1/8 inch is much ado about nothing. Others have a different opinions and are entitled to them.

In actuality, very few of the North American ammunition company's nominally 2 3/4 inch plastic cases are much over 2 5/8 inch long anyway.

[Germantown]

Thank you to both responders. I have asked the seller to verify the weight stamp numbers on this older Fox grade B-- have not yet heard back from him, as he may be at the SHOT show in Las Vegas. If you wish to see this advertise B "Duck Gun" the Guns International number is 100338829.

[Big Friend Ten]

The gun has been listed for a year or two looking for someone who wants a 7 lb 2 oz heavy duck gun

Sorry but I would look elsewhere...

[Germantown]

Thanks- My 12 2& 3/4" 1 ounce RST Lites are 2.5" unfired, and 2.65" after being fired. How important are the following two things I noted in deciding on a reputable gun dealer?:: The rating system, like Platinum Seller or Verified Seller GI uses? And is it relevant that a seller have a mailing address and both a land phone and Fax number in his contact data?

[Big Friend Ten]

If you want to buy the gun then do so. I have bought a half dozen AH Fox guns since first looking at that add with those dark photos.

If your gut warns you then you ought to pay attention...

[Germantown]

It is surprising to me, not having any knowledge of photography, how some gun dealers have good close in photos showing good details, and other do not. Being a man who believes 100% in both: Murphy's Law, and also the late President Reagan's sage advice "Trust is OK, but always cut the cards" I am setting into motion a test run regarding the dealer who is offering the B Grade Fox 12 bore. I went through his other gun listings and found a Greener 12 bore BLE- and the ad copy stated that rework and refurbishing were done on this Greener by a Ken Owen and also Keith Kearcher. So I asked him to provide letterhead copies of the invoices tied to the serial number of the Greener so I can verify that. We shall see what happens. If I don't get copies of the invoices, with an address and phone or Fax number so that I can contact either Mr. Owen and/or Mr. Kearcher, that will "speak volumes". My position is clear on that- if you are going to advertise a shotgun or rifle that was repaired by any well-known gunsmith or gunsmithing company: Mr. DelGrego, Mr. Turnbull, Mr. Hamblin, etc- then you should have the paperwork provenance to back up that claim.

A perfect example of this train of thought can be seen on Gun Brokers- a gentleman from NH has a nice looking A Grade 12- and he states in the ad therein that it was refinished by Mr. Freddy Brunner, an LC Smith expert gunsmith who lives near LA, Calif. I asked him (the seller) to fax me a copy of the invoice from said Mr. Brunner, tied to that Fox he is trying to sell- no reply as of yet- so again, the caveat emperor prevails, for those of us who prefer not be ripped off in a gun sale transaction. Too bad we can't buy and sell Fox guns here, but rules are rules, and there is always a valid reason for their existence.

[ROMAC]

You can buy and sell guns here.

You just need to become a paid annual member. You will even get a free serial number lookup once a year included in the membership, plus access to the members only section. It is worth every penny.

Directions are on the main page under the Links section.

[Germantown]

That is good to know. However, as I have not yet purchased any GRADED AH Fox shotgun to date, wouldn't it be more fitting to wait until I actually have one, then join. The problem I can see, as a non-member, is the "issues" that can arise from buying from an association member- whereas buying from a licensed gun dealer, if he is legitimate and honest (and most of them aren't I believe) then your issues remain between yourself and possibly your attorney, and the dealer, and not a member. But as a non-member, I very much appreciate the generous amount of good advice and guidance provided here.

[ROMAC]

G-town, its' $30 bucks a year to join. The knowledge is invaluable, and may save you many times that amount if anything you learn keeps you from making a mistake.

Your decision, though.

[Silvers]

That is good to know. However, as I have not yet purchased any AH Fox shotgun, wouldn't it be more fitting to wait until I actually have one, then join.

Didn't you post in May 2012 that you bought a Fox. Huhh?

http://foxcollectors.com/My%20Forum/php ... 130#p23130

[Germantown]

That is good to know. However, as I have not yet purchased any AH Fox shotgun, wouldn't it be more fitting to wait until I actually have one, then join.

Didn't you post in May 2012 that you bought a Fox. Huhh?

http://foxcollectors.com/My%20Forum/php ... 130#p23130

Correcto-- but as it had 7 lb. trigger pulls, and I didn't want to add another $200 to the purchase price to have them re-set by a good gunsmith, I sold it at my cost to another private party. It was a Philadelphia 12 Sterlingworth- nice wood pattern, good colors on the receiver, fine No. 2 weight stamped barrels, and it fit me like a porkpie hat on a carnival barker- I like the Sterlingworth design very much, way more graceful receiver lines than the Parker Trojan- but now I have the funds to buy a graded 12 Fox, and I want to make sure I "get it right"-- Once I have done so, I will re-consider the membership, the annual fee is priced right, of that there can be no doubt. Also, as you have the same keen eye for details as I like to think I have, you may have also noticed I left out the "b" in Buck Hamblin's surname- I spelled it "Hamlin" which is not correct. A fine man indeed and a master gunsmith on L.C. Smith and Uncle Dan LeFevers.

[Silvers]

I have also noted some many similarities in writing style with another fellow. Am I correct that your given name is Francis, same as mine?

Silvers

[Germantown]

I have also noted some many similarities in writing style with another fellow. Am I correct that your given name is Francis, same as mine?

Silvers

You are again correct. Do you go by Frank, or Francis, if I may ask. If you are both observant and astute enough to know this about me, then you may also understand the underlying reason I am not exactly rushing to write a $30.00 check. I live in Western Central MI-- but I have two married sisters living in PA, and one living in MD. I am also going back to try to edit the post, to read- "As I do not, at present, own a AH Fox shotgun"- and I respect any man who has keen powers of observation and the memory to back that up. No offense taken.