12 ga marking?

[Tom-ADC]

My barrels just say 12 ga nothing I can find on whether its chambered for 2 1/2, 2 5/8 or 2 3/4? Are they marked some how to indicate this? Serial number puts it as made in 1913.

[fullchoke16]

A 1913 gun won't be marked with the chamber length. That didn't occur until the late 1930's under Savage ownership.

[Tom-ADC]

So if I measure the chamber if I remember right a 2 3/4 inch shell is the fired length right? Did they have 2 3/4 in 1913?

[Twice Barrel]

So if I measure the chamber if I remember right a 2 3/4 inch shell is the fired length right? Did they have 2 3/4 in 1913?

Yes hulls are measured as the total length of the unfired shell. The second part of your question is yes. Ammunition companies were very responsive to customer requests and 2 3/4 in 12 gauge shells and even 3 inch shells were available. If your chambers have not been lengthened don't be surprised to find the the chambers actully measure 2 1/2 inches.

[Tom-ADC]

So using a highly calibrated wood dowel marked at 2.5, 2.75 & 3.0 it appears it has 2 3/4 inch chambers. I have so mild target loads I use loaded with Clays think I'll treat this old gal to a round of trap. These are right at 1150 FPS and 1 oz.

[Tom-ADC]

So using a highly calibrated wood dowel marked at 2.5, 2.75 & 3.0 it appears it has 2 3/4 inch chambers. I have some mild target loads I use loaded with Clays think I'll treat this old gal to a round of trap. These are right at 1150 FPS and 1 oz.

[Researcher]

The first smokeless powder for shotgun shells was Wood powder introduced in 1876. Shotgunners being a hidebound lot were rather slow to embrace smokeless powder, but by the 1890s it was coming on strong. In 1890, Captain A.W. Money came to America from England, and established the American E.C. and Schultze Powder Company in Oakland Park, Bergen County, New Jersey, with offices on Broadway in New York City, to manufacture smokeless shotgun powders. By their July 20, 1891 price list, Union Metallic Cartridge Co. was offering American Wood or Schultze smokeless powder shotshells. In 1893, Winchester was providing smokeless powder shells to selected shooters with Winchester offering them to the general public in 1894. The American ammunition companies held their smokeless powder loads offered in the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shells lower than those offered in the 2 3/4 inch and longer shells. The very heaviest 2 5/8 inch shells I find offered were 3 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 26 grains of dense smokeless powders such as Ballistite or Infallible with 1 1/4 ounces of shot in the early 1900s. Before 1910, according to the ammunition company catalogues I have, the companies backed off on the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shells to nothing heavier than 1 1/8 ounce, and one needed to go to the 2 3/4 inch or longer 12-gauge shells to get 1 1/4 ounce payloads. In 2 3/4 inch and longer shells they offered up to 3 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powders or 28 grains of Ballistite or Infallible dense smokeless powders with the same 1 1/4 ounce of shot. These loads were very high pressure according to a DuPont Smokeless Shotgun Powders (1933) book I have. It shows the 3 1/2 drams of DuPont bulk smokeless powder pushing 1 1/4 ounces of shot as being 11,700 pounds; 3 1/2 drams of Schultze bulk smokeless powders pushing 1 1/4 ounces of shot being 11,800 pounds and the 28-grains of Ballistite pushing the 1 1/4 ounces of shot being 12,600 pounds!!! There were plenty of lighter loads being offered, but American shotgunners being what they are, I'm sure many were opting for the heaviest loads available. The same situation held with the 20-gauge shells. The "standard" 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells carried slightly milder loads than the extra cost longer shells in 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3-inch lengths.

Many folks believe that the "modern" shotshells loaded with progressive burning smokeless powders, introduced in the early 1920s, Western Cartridge Company's Super-X loads leading the way, were higher pressure than the old bulk and dense smokeless powder loads. Reading period literature, this is not the case. With progressive burning smokeless powders they were able to move out equal shot loads at higher velocity or a heavier shot load at equal velocity, but at lower pressure than the old style bulk or dense smokeless powders.

In reviewing old Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogues and price lists, the first time I see mention of paper shotshell lengths is in 1895 where they offer 10-gauge shells in 2 5/8 and 2 7/8 inch lengths, 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch lengths, while 16-gauge is just 2 9/16 inch and 20-gauge just 2 1/2 inch. In the September 1896 catalogue they offer 12-gauge paper "Smokeless" shell in lengths up to 3-inch. All brass 10- and 12-gauge NPEs were offered up to 3 1/4 inch length. By the April 1899 UMC Catalogue things are really taking off and they've added 2 3/4 and 2 7/8 inch lengths to both 16- and 20-gauge offerings, and the 3 1/4 inch 12-gauge length in their "Trap" shell. By the May 1900 UMC catalogue the 3-inch 16- and 20-gauge length is being offered in their salmon colored "Smokeless" shell and their green colored "Trap" shell.

That pretty much covers paper shotshell lengths and when they appeared. So, by 1900 we had paper 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch lengths; 16-gauge shells in 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths; and 20-gauge shells in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.

[xewizzard]

Researcher - Thank you for preparing and posting this history of shotshells. I found it very interesting and easy to digest.

[Tom-ADC]

Researcher - Thank you for preparing and posting this history of shotshells. I found it very interesting and easy to digest.

Makes two of us thanks again great history lesson.

[Tom-ADC]

http://outdoornebraska.ne.gov/nebland/a ... shells.asp

[ROMAC]

What a great article, thank you for the link.

[Big Friend Ten]

Researcher,

The depth and accuracy of your knowledge knows no bounds. Thank you for sharing with us!

Respectfully,
Mark