Safe loads in my Fox?

[ViperR]

Hello everyone,
New to the site. My Dad gave me his Sterlingworth 20's era 12 ga for my 40th B-Day. It's in excellent shape.
I'm wondering what I can safely shoot out of it. He included some Remington Game Load 2 3/4 length, 3 1/4 DR EQ, 1 oz 8 shot that he had for years that I know we shot with. And some newer Winchester Light Target Load 2 3/4 length, 2 3/4 DR EQ, 1 1/8 oz 8 shot.
Are these ok for the gun? Can I still get lead shot or are all loads steel now?
Thanks for looking and any help you can provide!

[Twice Barrel]

Providing that your Fox is in good condition a 1 ounce or 1 1/8th ounce loads producing 9,500 psi chamber pressure at a muzzle velocity of 1,200 feet per second are quite safe and the lower recoil will avoid damage to the 80 year old stock. Some will say that you should only shoot short ( 2 1/2 inch) ammunition however standard 2 3/4 inch ammunition that meet the above requirements are quite safe. Bismuth and Tungsten Matrix ammunition are OK if they do not exceed the 9,500 psi/1200 fps MV but Never shoot steel shot in your Fox as it may lead to barrel bulging.

[jim mayer]

I donot shot low brass winchester shells in my many vintage SXS. The primers tend to hang firing pins. Told to me by one of best gunsmiths.jim mayer I find cleaning vintage guns a final wipe down with Clenzoil enhances metal & wood[works sor me]Jim baton Rouge

[jim mayer]

I donot shot low brass winchester shells in my many vintage SXS. The primers tend to hang firing pins. Told to me by one of best gunsmiths.jim mayer I find cleaning vintage guns a final wipe down with Clenzoil enhances metal & wood[works sor me]Jim baton Rouge

[jim mayer]

I donot shot low brass winchester shells in my many vintage SXS. The primers tend to hang firing pins. Told to me by one of best gunsmiths.jim mayer I find cleaning vintage guns a final wipe down with Clenzoil enhances metal & wood[works sor me]Jim baton Rouge

[ViperR]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll start off low and work my way up.

[Researcher]

FOX CHAMBERS --

The only two A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogues, that I have seen, that state chamber lengths are the 1913 and 1914. They both state 12-gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 3/4 - inch shells, 16-gauge 2 9/16 – inch shells and 20-gauge 2 1/2 - inch shells. That being said, virtually every 12-gauge Ansley H. Fox gun made in Philadelphia (other than the HE-Grade Super-Fox) that I've run a chamber gauge in shows about 2 5/8 - inch. The chambers of unmolested 16-gauge guns seem to run about 2 7/16 inch and 20-gauge guns a hair over 2 3/8 inch. A very few graded guns were ordered with longer chambers. Savage began stating chambered for 2 ¾ inch shells in their 1938 Fox catalogues.

All this being said there is a good body of evidence that back in those days chambers were held about 1/8 inch shorter than the shells for which they were intended. In the recently published book The Parker Story the Remington vintage specification sheets on pages 164 to 169 call for a chamber 1/8-inch shorter than the shell for which it is intended. Also in the 1930's there were a couple of articles in The American Rifleman (July 1936 and March 1938) on the virtue of short chambers. A recent issue of The Double Gun Journal carried an article on tests showing no significant increase in pressure from shooting shells in slightly short chambers. IMHO I don't much sweat that 1/8-inch in 12-gauge guns. On the other hand when one gets a 20-gauge chambered at 2 3/8-inch likely intended for 2 1/2-inch shells I do worry about folks firing 2 3/4-inch shells in such guns.

No one can tell you over the internet what loads may or may not be safe in a given gun. That takes a qualified double gunsmith with the gun in hand. I tend to use lower pressure 7/8 ounce reloads at 1200 fps in my old 12-gauge doubles for high volume clay target shooting, just to be easy on me and the old guns. There are some very light weight guns in my collection that I don't shoot anything heavier in. I'd venture to say that most 12-gauge Ansley H. Fox doubles that have been in use since the mid-1920s have digested lots of 3 3/4 dram equiv. 1 1/4 ounce loads without a whimper.

I've been shooting Pheasants with this 1914-vintage A-Grade, 12-gauge, with 2 5/8 inch chamberd 28-inch Krupp 3-weight barrels using 2 3/4 inch shells since 1966 --



Three of these eight, shot Monday, are still hanging in my shop building aging as I type this. I normally carry a 3 dram equiv. 1 1/8 ounce #7 1/2 trap load in the right barrels and a 3 3/4 dram equiv. 1 1/4 ounce #6 in the left.

I've been doing a lot of collecting of old ammo catalogues and literature over the past decade. Up until 1921, the heaviest 12-gauge loads offered in 2 3/4 inch and longer cases was 1 1/4 ounces of shot pushed by 3 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powder or 28 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Ballistite or Infallible. In 1922, Western Cartridge Co. introduced their Super-X loads using progressive burning smokeless powders. These upped the velocity of a 1 1/4 ounce load to 1330 fps or 3 3/4 dram equiv. or allowed 1 3/8 ounce to be moved out of a 3-inch hull at a bit less velocity, without exceeding the pressures of the old 3 1/2 dram/28-grain 1 1/4 ounce loads. This according to Western Cartridge Co. and DuPont literature from 1922 to 1928.

[Magwa45]

I shoot only RST shotshells in my Sterlingworth. These are low pressure loads and just the thing for vintage guns. You can also buy by the box at retailers such as Classic Upland Supply.

http://www.rstshells.com/

http://www.classicusc.com/