Repairing a Fox Ejector?

[Jim McKee]

Hi!
I have new to me a Fox 12b that today after shooting several boxes of shotshells if appears that the ejector rod on one side is broken.
Is this easy to repair ?

Thanks!
Jim

[ROMAC]

Pull that rod out quick before it gets jammed in there.

They can be fixed by a competent double gunsmith.

There are several threads you can search here that will give you lots of great information.

[Jim McKee]

I can pull it out but it hits the extractor bar at the back
should I try to bend it and pull it out?
Thanks!
Jim

[Silvers]

Guide pin is broken. I suggest you remove the barrel and block the underside of the ejector near its stem with a small piece of wood or similar, taped in place, so the ejector doesn't push the pin back into its pilot hole. That’s until you can get the barrels sent to a proven guy for a guide pin replacement. Emphasis on “proven” because I’ve seen many replacement pins that weren’t dead nuts on location and the guy had to file the pin trying to align the shell rim countersink. Or if you're mech inclined and have the proper screwdrivers you can remove the cocking slide screw, slide and spring and get at the stop screw underneath to pull the ejector and remove the pin. Don't try to bend it to remove without pulling the ejector. It’s way too stiff. Also assuming you do the latter do not reassemble and shoot the gun because of the possibility of breaking the stem since the ejector's outboard end is unsupported. Then you’re really up the creek so to speak. Just for info to readers, in the past I did pin replacements for AHFCA members using my precision jig and mill and at a nominal cost, but I've lately stopped doing that work. I just don’t have the time nowadays and believe it or not I’ve gotten stiffed a few times. And thus I've never had a pin replaced elsewhere and don't have a personal recommendation for a good 'smith. Hopefully some others will step up with names based on a pin replacement they had done by the gent they might recommend. frank

[dblgunfix]

Jim, if you can send me the bbls with the ejectors as is, I will get the broken pin out and make a new one for you.

[MC1952]

I have a two 20 ga AE 2 barrel set and it’s for this exact scenario that I keep the second set of barrels. They were cut and I considered selling them. But they have their own forend and iron and if I break a part I have a replacement handy.

[Stan Hillis]

I detailed one way of repairing this 6 1/2 years ago, on the Technicana and Restoration forum here. If you don't have the ability to do this yourself it might be interesting for you to read.

The repair I did on the BE Fox has held up well. "Knocking on wood".

Broken ejector guide pin repair
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Post by Stan Hillis » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:41 pm

I thought, just for the sake of interest, I'd explain how I repaired a broken guide pin on the left ejector of my 32" BE Fox. The pin was still in the hole, and had been there for some time before I bought the gun, I assume, but I really enjoy shooting this gun and thought I'd attempt a repair myself. Here's how I went about it:

After removing the ejectors from both barrels I pondered how to get the broken pin out of the hole, as gentle bumping of the breech end of that barrel would not dislodge it. I soaked it for several days with a good, thin penetrant to loosen any oil and dirt sludge that may have hardened and might be holding it in place. Then, I placed a 25# block of plumber's lead on the ground and knelt by it. Holding the muzzles upright I gently rapped the breech end of that barrel on the soft lead ingot. I have found in my farming repairs that inertia will often dislodge something that is stuck better than other methods. It worked perfectly and the pin slid out onto the lead block on about the third tap.

Measuring the broken pin with a mike, and measuring a couple others that were sound and in other Foxes, I arrived at an average diameter for the pin. I looked around the shop for small finishing nails that appeared to be close to the size needed, or slightly larger. I remembered reading on here that Frank posted about using finishing nails for these repairs. I found just that, and the nail measured about .002" larger in diameter than the originals. I figured I could easily polish it down that much, if needed, with emery strips. I cut the head off the nail with a cutoff wheel in the Dremel tool, and dressed the burrs off.

Next, I set about getting the ejector itself ready to accept the new pin. Putting it in a well lighted vise, backside up, and with my opti-visor on, I could easily see the little round remains of the old guide pin. I dressed it off carefully with a 0000 file until it was flush with the back side of the ejector. I could still see the circle where the pin entered the hole. With a freshened up prick punch and 2 oz. ball peen I very carefully center punched the old pin remains. A very light tap made a tiny mark, enough to let me review the location and see if it needed any adjustment to be perfectly centered. I have found that by making a very light prick mark the first time, I can move it in any direction needed with the next tap simply by leaning the head of the punch (the part you strike) away from the direction you want the mark to move, and striking the punch just a little bit harder, which actually moves the prick mark in any direction you need until you are satisfied it is perfectly centered. I can get it very, very close to the center of a shaft or pin by doing it like this. Many years of practice I guess. So, the mark was made on the tiny pin "butt".

I had ordered 2 or 3 long drills of the proper diameter awhile back just for this purpose. The extra length is needed so that the drill chuck will not contact the end of the ejector stem before the hole is drilled to the proper depth. The ones I got are called aircraft extension drill bits, and though available in very tiny diameters, are up to 6" in length, plenty long enough for the job at hand. Working very slowly, with the ejector clamped in a vise on my drill press table, I drilled the old piece out, being prudent not to drill through the face of the ejector. The cut end of the nail was a little more loose than what you would call a snug fit in the hole. So far, so good.

Now, my attention turned, for quite some time I might add, to figuring how to hold the new pin perfectly aligned in the ejector to solder it. I read about a jig someone had made, considered that for myself, and decided to hold off on that since I am about as far from being a machinist as anyone can imagine. I thought for several weeks about how I could keep that pin perfectly aligned, and secure, for soldering. One day it hit me, the most perfect jig I could have for holding the two pieces to be soldered was already in my shop .............. the barrels themselves. But, how to actually hold them securely, I did not yet know. Looking at the barrels closely, a plan was formulated. I found that with both ejectors in place in the barrels, I could snug down the ejector retaining screw enough that it would hold the ejectors "locked" in any position from completely extended to flush with the breech. Okay. I knew that I had to keep the heat from the torch completely away from the barrels and ribs extension, and I needed some room to work as I soldered the pin in the newly drilled hole in the back of the ejector. Yeah! That's it. Leave the nail long enough that it bottoms out in the guide pin hole, seat the nail into the newly drilled hole, with one finger hold that ejector tight against the nail (which can't go in any more because it is hitting the bottom of the guide pin hole), hold the other ejector "closed" against the breech, and snug down the retaining screw. The good ejector tight up against breech face, broken one extended about 3/4" to give room to work and to insulate the barrels from the torch flame. Shazam!, it held perfectly, and the whole setup was perfectly aligned, looking at it from all angles. The barrels were being held In a vise that is up high to allow for easy access to the breech area, muzzles up. What the heck, let's make a fire.

Using a regular BernzOMatic propane torch, Silvalloy silver solder from Brownell's, and the appropriate flux smeared all over the area to be joined, I fired up the torch and began heating. Having lots of experience with regular brazing of steel, using my oxyacetylene outfit, I knew that braze would flow and alloy with the parts when the parts got hot enough. I hoped that silver solder would do about the same thing .......... and jumped in. When the parts got where I thought the temp should be to flow the silver braze I touched the Silvalloy strip to the joint .......... not quite, a little more heat, and the solder flowed nicely around the joint. I held the heat to it until I was sure the solder had flowed down into the joint all around, and let it cool down. No sign of any heat ever reached the breeches, as the flame was directed in such a way as to prevent this, easy to do.

There was a slight buildup of solder around the joint so, after a good cool down, I clamped the ejector, with the too long guide pin, in my work table vise and shortened the pin to just a hair longer than the pin on the right, original ejector. After dressing it nice and round, and polishing the new pin with emery strips, I carefully began to dress the small buildup of solder down, on the back of the ejector. I'm a nut I guess, but I love tedious filing like this, and have accumulated many needle files, clockmakers files, and others. Didn't take long to get it nice and flat, then polished with emery backed by a flat file. Done. (Big grin, but ... would it work?)

Reassembling the ejectors into the barrels, the new repair seemed to operate flawlessly. Okay, a judicious bit of oiling, and a test. Two AA fired hulls were dropped in, the hammers dropped on them, the barrels opened, and ............. Pop! both hulls flew over my shoulder and landed right together. Success is sweet.

This is lengthy, I know, but it is posted just to let those of us who aren't very talented at repairs know that things like this can be done in the home shop, and the satisfaction is huge. Moreover, we all know how hard Fox ejectors are to come by, and saving one from the scrap bin is always worthwhile.

Hope this is of interest to a few.

All my best, Stan

[Jeff S]

Thanks for reposting. Excellent narrative!

[jolly bill]

Stan,

Thanks, from all of us for your very detailed method of repairing your ejector guide pin.

I'm sure you had a big grin of satisfaction when you were done, and it tested out fine. And, is still that way.

Not quite like fixing a broken pin on a 6 bottom plow, I'm sure!

Jolly

[Stan Hillis]

Thanks, all. I feel fairly confident there was a high level of luck involved with it turning out so well.

Now, if only I could get up the nerve to try bending a couple of stocks with heat lamps and oil ...............

[Silvers]

My friend Stan has the skill and patience to do a good job as he described here, but I'd caution most to think long and hard before trying to do a guide pin replacement yourself. Even when the exact center of the broken pin is center punched, it's hard to keep the mostly convex face of the ejector on the drill press table, and the extension drill (so-called aircraft drill) can easily "walk" off that punch mark because it's unsupported along the length of the ejector stem. That's where a hardened steel jig comes into play to keep the drill from bending and also dead nuts on center. Also it's too easy to drill through the face of the ejector and while that's a cosmetic issue it can also allow molten silver solder to flow though and get into the shell rim cut where it's very hard to clean out without reheating and affecting the alignment of your new guide pin. You want it to be blind hole that doesn't come through and again that’s hard to do on a drill press, better done on a milling machine where the depth can be controlled precisely. I personally use high strength silver braze that requires high heat to melt and flow, and afterwards I'll cross-pin with a tiny steel pin to positively keep the new guide pin from ever pulling out, using another locating hole on my jig. Lastly the pilot hole on the barrel breech is often not perpendicular relative to back surface of the ejector and you'll want to select a new pin material that will stand repeated slight bending. Back to Metallurgy 101.

Anyway, much to think about before deciding to have at it on your own and especially with a higher grade Fox.

frank

[Stan Hillis]

As always, nothing but accurate and helpful information from Frank.

Thanks again for the thought provoking reply.

[DarylC]

In your opinion Frank, what do you think is the weakness in the Fox ejector causing it to fail as it does? I don't mind ejectors on my hunting guns but on my target guns which will be fired 100+ times in a short amount of time I prefer extractors.

[vaturkey]

Let me add something on my end. I've had guide pins fail on me twice while shooting 5 stand. In both cases the barrels got so hot that I had to wear a glove on my left hand. I know of one other Fox person who also had his guide pin break while shooting 5 stand. Perhaps its the heat causing the issue? Don't know.

PS. Also know one gent out west whose guide pins broke twice and he had one of the well known gunsmiths out there re-drill the guide pin holes to a larger diameter and have larger guide pins installed. FWIW, I've never had one break a second time after being repaired.

[DarylC]

I kind of suspected that heat/repeated firings in a short period of time might have something to do with it Tom but I'm not that versed on their design. A larger OD guide pin could solve it but it seems the problem is where the pin is attached to the blade. I've had Parker ejectors break. My double trap's left ejector blade snapped off which is unusual but the main problem with Parker ejectors is located in the forearm with the hammers. So far my Lefever ejectors have been trouble free. Fingers crossed.