CURIOUS FOX WITH 2 BARRELS

[carolsshotgun]

I’m new to Fox guns so please forgive my ignorance. I am researching what I think is a 12-gauge A. H. Fox A Grade shotgun for my daughter-in-law. She inherited the gun, which originally belonged to her grandfather, who died in 1999 at age 71. The serial number is 17538. The markings on the 25 5/16-inch-long barrel read: “Krupp Fluid Steel Made by A.H. Fox Gun Co. Phila.Pa.” Additionally, “Ansley H. Fox” is stamped on each side of the receiver. Accompanying the complete A.H. Fox shotgun in the modern-day plastic case is what I find to be a curiosity: A spare double-barrel assembly. The markings on the spare barrel, which is 28 inches long, read: “Savage Arms Corporation Utica NY USA Proof tested --- 12 gauge 2 ¾ inch chamber.” The curious part to me is that the spare barrel is stamped with the same serial number as the A.H. Fox gun – 17538, but with an “A” preceding the number. It appears to me – remember, I’m a novice -- that the complete gun likely was made long before the Savage spare barrel and, obviously, in a different factory. My question is: How did they both get the same serial number? And was it common for a gun buyer to purchase an additional barrel as a spare? Along with the complete gun and the spare barrel, the case includes a 3-piece wood-and-brass rod (1/2-inch diameter rod with assembled length of 36 inches) that I presume is part of the cleaning kit. Also, the case contains a 2-piece, 1/8-inch-diameter brass rod with a wire brush on one end and a wooden handle on the other, with an assembled length of 35 ½ inches. The A.H. Fox gun has a lace-up, pale-red leather buttstock cover. Was that an aftermarket accessory or could the gun originally have been ordered with it? I appreciate any guidance on the curiosities in this gun case.

[Researcher]

The original Krupp barrels may have suffered some damage and been cut to that odd length. The A-/AE-Grade pages from the 1911 A.H. Fox Gun Co. Catalogue No. 24 --

Savage Arms Corp. bought the A.H. Fox Gun Co. in the fall of 1929 and moved production to their factory in Utica, NY. Sometime in the 1930s or early 1940s the owner of the gun sent it to Savage for a second set of barrels.

The curious part to me is that the spare barrel is stamped with the same serial number as the A.H. Fox gun – 17538, but with an “A” preceding the number.

What other than the serial number of the gun the barrels were being made for would a worker at Savage stamp on the barrels?

There should be a numeral 2 under the serial number on the Savage barrels and the forearm iron. The number 2 set of 28-inch Savage barrels for my 12-gauge 32-inch Super-Fox --

[carolsshotgun]

Thank you for the insights, Researcher. Wonder what kind of damage occurred that required 2-3 inches being sawed off.

[Jeff S]

Thank you for the insights, Researcher. Wonder what kind of damage occurred that required 2-3 inches being sawed off.

Well… there is always the possibility that he cut the barrels to eliminate most of the choke thus creating a scattergun for grouse hunting.

[vaturkey]

Thank you for the insights, Researcher. Wonder what kind of damage occurred that required 2-3 inches being sawed off.

Well… there is always the possibility that he cut the barrels to eliminate most of the choke thus creating a scattergun for grouse hunting.

I went to an auction on the Eastern Shore that had a pile of Fox sxs. Of the 8 up for auction 7 had had their barrels cut. The deceased owner had a fleet of high end setters and back then Quail were everywhere. Hacksaw blades were cheap and there was no need for much choke. PS. Bell of the ball was a DHE Parker 20 gauge, and sadly that gun had 2 inches cut off.

[carolsshotgun]

How does a sawed-off barrel assembly affect the value of an A.H. Fox shotgun?

[vaturkey]

IMO its a big hit on value. Really major hit if the gun had circa 4 inches of the barrel were cut off and there is no more remaining choke. If your cut barrels were originally 26 inches long then there will be plenty of choke left.

[Researcher]

I imagine I'll get flamed for this, but it should reduce it by about half.

Thirty years of the American nimrod reading Jack O'Connor extolling the virtues of his 26-inch barrel doubles in his Outdoor Life column and articles brought a lot of hacksaw blades into use. My all-time favorite is his column in the September 1965 issue on the 20-gauge. On page 72 he talks about a 30-inch barrel 20-gauge L.C. Smith he had when he lived in Flagstaff and states he did the best work he ever did with that 20-gauge. Then spends the rest of the column calling it a freak and why it was all wrong and his 26-inch Model 21 is much better.

[vaturkey]

A few years ago I bought a straight grip 20 gauge CE from a board member that had had its barrels cut from 30 to 28 inches. Still had chokes of Mod and IC after cutting. Gun balanced great and I shoot it well. I got it for half of what it would have been worth with uncut barrels. Knew that in advance and I made an offer on it based on the drop in value because of those cut barrels. Its a super nice gun, and reality is it is worth what I paid for it. Fantastic shooting gun and actually is probably a much better shooter with the 2 inches cut off. Really nice Woodcock/Grouse gun.

PS. If the gun I had bought had zero choke after cutting it, I wouldn't have bought it for almost any price. Choke is a good thing to have.

Double PS. One of these days when I sell it, it will still be worth what I paid for it because I bought it at the right price.

[MC1952]

I have a Philly 20 ga AE with two sets of barrels. The second set, from Savage, is serial numbered to the gun but does not have the number 2 under the serial number.