AE 20, 28"

Northern Bob · Post by **Northern Bob** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:22 pm

I finally found a small bore Fox to go with my two 12 bores. I haven't seen many in Canada, and this was the first I had the opportunity to buy. It is an AE 20, #201,135, with 28" barrels made in 1919. I won't be able to get down to pick it up until next week. There wasn't much information available and I bought it with just one poor picture to go on, though it was described as in VGC. I was hoping someone could help me out with what to expect. With 28" barrels would this likely have mod/full chokes? It was described as having 2 3/4" chambers, is that likely unless they were lengthened later?The directory for the A grade on the home page cuts off the weight range for the 20 gauge. What would be the normal range for one like this? Krupp steel? I know its not too swift to buy a gun with so little information, but it might be years before I found another up here. Thanks for any help on what it might be.

cargie32 · Post by **cargie32** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:49 pm

N.B., bbls correct, M & F, 3" drop at heel, stock 14 1/8", wt. 6 lbs, shipped to Squires Bingham Co. You may have to get a letter on it to tell when it was made. Tell the mailman to hurry up!!!

vaturkey · Post by **vaturkey** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:04 pm

I've got an A grade earlier then that and it doesn't have Krupp steel barrels. I'm guessing Chamber length may be 2 1/2" instead of 2 3/4" unless they have been lengthened. Have to admit, the only way to know everything is to get a letter of course.

Northern Bob · Post by **Northern Bob** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:15 pm

Thanks for the info, cargi32. It sounds like just what I was looking for, though I wouldn't have minded a bit less drop. I've got a few other 20s (not Fox) with 26" barrels and they seem just a bit light in the muzzle after shooting waterfowl guns.
vaturkey, thank you. I suppose it doesn't make much difference if they are chromax or krupp, as long as they are in good shape. It wouldn't surprise me if the chambers were measured incorrectly so I'll wait and see. I had them hold it for me until I could get down to pick it up. I'd rather not trust the mail if I can avoid it. I'll take some 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" shells with me and try to find somewhere open to shoot it. Can't wait!

vaturkey · Post by **vaturkey** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:26 pm

My very early 16 gauge A grade letters with a 14 1/4 LOP and 2 1/2" DAH. Maybe yours won't be the 3" drop.

DaveH · Post by **DaveH** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:37 am

Northern Bob,

Is this the gun that came up in the recent Bud Haynes auction? I contacted them just a couple of days before the sale but couldn't get any photos sent on short notice. I did call and asked a bunch of questions while one of the guys had the gun in hand. He was not a double gun expert by any means, but did try his best to answer my questions. Was told the stock was cracked in the wrist - not sure if it had been glued. He wouldn't put any pressure on it to see if it was stable or not. Said stock was refinished in gloss. I threw out the notes I took at the time, but I had him measure the LOP and I believe it was a little over 14" to a butt plate. Bbls with good bores, reblued over "some pitting" near the breech, measuring exactly 28". He wasn't sure if it was a rust re-blue or not. Action tight with lever slightly rt of center. Traces of case colors, action metal surfaces VG.

Not much too go on without pictures. I did make a bid since, as you said, these guns are scarce in Canada. I guess you are a braver gambler than I am! Let us know what kind of shape it's really in when you pick it up!

Dave

Northern Bob · Post by **Northern Bob** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:56 am

That is the one, Dave. You had a more detailed description to go on than I did. I must not have asked the right questions since there are problems with it I didn't know about. Or more likely, I was just hearing what I wanted to hear. I just hope it wasn't hot blued. Oh well, without being able to check out auction items in person you pay your money and take your chances. I had planned to go to the auction up until the day before but work got in the way. Probably a good thing I only got 1 of the other 5 I bid on. I'll post some pictures after I pick it up. Thanks for the info.

DaveH · Post by **DaveH** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:51 pm

The issue of not knowing if it had been hot blued is the one that kept me from bidding more than than I did. I called after that auction and asked what it went for - it was just a little over what I had bid, so suspect you've gotten a great buy even if it needs a fair bit of work.

Northern Bob · Post by **Northern Bob** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:48 pm

It wouldn't have had to go up much to be over my max bid either. I've usually been pretty happy with my fax bid purchases, but that might just mean I'm due for a disappointment. It doesn't help my confidence if neither of the top bidders actually saw the gun. I'll just hope for the best. I bought it to shoot, not collect, so it wouldn't have to be perfect for me to be happy with it. At least not at that price.

Northern Bob · Post by **Northern Bob** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:40 pm

I finally got home after picking up the 20. I was very happy with it. I realize it has a few issues. The stock had a repair to a large chip on the left side. It has been pinned and glued. The forend also has a few pins in it and the wood was varnished. It looks like someone did a poor job of recheckering the forend and stock. There is still quite a bit of case colour on the receiver. The bores are excellent and though it was advertised as 2 3/4" chambers they are the original 2 1/2". The barrels are Krupp steel and the ejectors work fine.
I'm not sure why it was described with light pitting on the barrels, there is just one tiny spot on the left barrel. I don't think it has been reblued. I had a buddy who is an experienced collector (not Foxes) take a look at it and thought it was original as well. The action is very tight and the lever is centered. The engraving is deeper and better than I expected.
Would the brass insert in the grip cap be original? I haven't seen one like it before but it looks like it belongs. Also, the forend tip is bone. Would that have been done when the stock was done? Thank you in advance for your comments. Sorry for the poor pictures. The lighting washed out the cc and blueing so they don't do the gun justice.

spyder · Post by **spyder** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:14 pm

Hey Bob,

I actually wouldn't mind having a graded Fox with a few "issues". That way, I would be so paranoid taking it into the field. Congrats on your purchase.

DaveH · Post by **DaveH** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:37 pm

Bob,

Now that I see that the only real issues are with the wood, I really wish I would have put in a higher bid. You got a bargain. Bud Haynes' would make a lot more money if they'd make photos available. There were a lot of nice sounding guns in that auction (mostly rifles), but as an absentee bidder you really had almost nothing to go on. Glad it worked out for you!

Dave

Northern Bob · Post by **Northern Bob** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:08 pm

Thanks guys. Dave, I was lucky on this one. The stock repairs are solid, but I may send it off and have them redone. The cracks could be made so it would be hard to see them. She's 6lbs 1oz by my scale and balances 3/8" in front of the hinge pin. A nice handling little grouse gun. I hope you find the one you're looking for.

Northern Bob · Post by **Northern Bob** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:57 am

I received an email from a buddy that looked at my pictures of this AE. He asked what the small plate is on the bottom of the forend iron just ahead of the hinge pin was. It is attached to the forend with two pins. Would this be some kind of repair? Does anyone have an opinion of whether the bone forend tip and the brass insert in the grip cap are original? Thank you.

foxdbl · Post by **foxdbl** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:57 pm

looks like someone put that on as a stop to keep the barrels from opening to far.

Fox Collectors

AE 20, 28"

AE 20, 28"

#201135

I'm guessing Chromax Steel not Krupp

For what its worth

Picked it up