Pattern Board or Measurement?

Foxhound · Post by **Foxhound** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:03 pm

Did Fox pattern their guns or measure the choke constriction/bore diameter to determine the chokes listed on the facory cards?

Silvers · Post by **Silvers** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:08 pm

Foxhound, I really doubt guns were patterned as the norm. I'm thinking that would be too costly and hardly necessary once decimal choke constrictions were established by a test gun or two. An exception would be in the case of graded guns when a specific yield was requested by the customer - usually tighter patterns. Some examples I have seen: "barrels must make 75% pattern or better"..... "gun must make extremely close pattern with 7-1/2 ch."..... "pattern with 3 dr Du Pont, both barrels must make 75%".

Best one I've seen so far: "Be sure this gun is thoroughly tested to see that it is extra full choke . Customer will return gun if it does not shoot as ordered". Silvers

Post by **fox-admin** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:24 pm

Every Super Fox card I have seen was pattern tested with the pellet counts on the card. Many special order guns were also pattern tested.

Foxhound · Post by **Foxhound** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:26 pm

If early guns tend to have tight bore diameters as discussed elsewhere on the forum, will that gun pattern like one with a choke? For instance a .721 bore like an Imp. Cyl. choke?

Foxhound · Post by **Foxhound** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:34 pm

Silvers and Fox-Admin, thanks for the information. I have read about and examined several 12 gauge Remington 1894 shotguns with the pellet count stamped on the barrel flats. Testing with 1 ounce of #7 or #8 shot if I remember correctly.

eightbore · Post by **eightbore** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:13 pm

Foxhound, in theory, a tight bore gun with no choke should shoot a cylinder bore pattern. To test this theory, you should pattern your gun. I have a long tight bore gun that shows no constriction anywhere in the barrel that throws a "more than cylinder" pattern with no choke, but I have no explanation for it. I also have a somewhat shorter tight bore gun that throws an uncommonly even cylinder bore pattern. Again, test the individual gun.

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:40 pm

The A.H. Fox Gun Co. 1915 to 17 catalogues state -- "After the FOX passes all factory tests the gun is given an expert test by a practical shooter. Each gun is tested with a heavy overcharge equal to the test required by European Government Proof Houses. The gun is then tested for pattern and the record of this test is written on the FOX GUARANTEE TAG and this tag, together with the FOX PROOF Certificate, is tied to the gun."

birdawg · Post by **birdawg** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:21 pm

Dave,
Have you seen any of the guarantee cards or the cards with the super fox non guaranteed wordage?

jolly bill · Post by **jolly bill** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:34 pm

Pictured below is the original factory hang for Fox 12 gauge early A grade serial number 19823. The factory work card (thanks to Mr. Harris) specifies the gun to have 30 inch barrels choked M and F. And that's what it seems to be: M & F.

And the tag states with 3 drams smokeless powder and 1 1/8 ounce #8 chilled shot in a 30" circle at 40 yards produces 253 pellets from the right barrel and 334 from the left barrel.

Contrary to the bright red "EJECTOR" across the tag, it does not have ejectors. Has the standard extractors.

birdawg · Post by **birdawg** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:38 pm

VERY nice gun and tags.
Thanks!

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:48 pm

Nice tag and gun Jolly Bill!

That 1 1/8 ounce of #8 is about 460 pellets, so 253/460 = 55% and 334/460 = 72.6 %.

I've been looking for 46 years for one of those Super-Fox tags that explains the "Barrels not guaranteed -- See Tag".

I use to have a minty 2nd generation A-Grade 12-gauge with the hang tag but I sold it to Dave Riffle at The Vintage Cup in 2003 rather then move its extreme drop-at-heel west. Now the only hang tags I have are Savage-era and they are just stamped MOD and FULL, no pellet counts.

FOXIST · Post by **FOXIST** » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:02 pm

Researcher My Savage era A grade hang tag only has the Mod / Full and no pellet count also. Paul