Early "A" Grade restoration

bkm3062 · Post by **bkm3062** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:28 pm

Hello.

I was handed down an early "A" Grade that belonged to my grandfather.

It is a Philadelphia gun with Krupp Steel, a 30" barrel, serial number 12799.

I've learned that it was built somewhere between 1906 & 1913 but I would like to pin it down a little closer. Does anyone know how to determine exactly what year these guns were built?

I also read somehwere about a person who has access to manufacturing records and was wondering how to reach this person, what kind of records are available, etc.

Last but not least, the gun is in pretty good shape, really, but I am seriuosly considering having it restored. I was leaning toward sending it to Doug Turnbulls', but are there any other suggestions/recommendations in this regard?

Thanks!

Newcomer.

vaturkey · Post by **vaturkey** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:15 am

Regarding restoration, I'm a fan of leaving the old girls (and this one is an old girl) alone as long as its in good shape when it ties back to the "family" tree so to speak. Certainly get it checked out by someone who knows old doubles for an inspection, cleaning etc. and to determine whether it's mechanically in good enough shape to use. IMO you don't want a gunsmith who doesn't know much about doubles taking these things apart and putting them back together again. I'm sure others will jump in an give their opinion as well.

PS. We love pictures so if you can take a few an post them it would be much appreciated.

fullchoke16 · Post by **fullchoke16** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:33 am

1910 would be the production year. Records are somewhat sketchy on the older guns but you could try getting factory info from Mr. Callahan who searches the factory records. You have to pay up front for it in either case. As far as restoration goes, if its a shooter, you're throwing a bunch of money away that you'll never get back. Turnbull is good but not cheap. So you need to decide how important it really is to you personally.

loggy · Post by **loggy** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:55 pm

My father had a Model 12 that I passed on to my son. I had a cracked wrist repaired but left the rest alone. Much of the blueing was worn off as well as the finish on the stock. All of that was done by my father. My son usually hunts with it now. There is nothing better than watching him nail a long range pheasant. If it were me and I knew the person that put the wear in the gun I would leave those marks there.-John

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:12 pm

You guys gotta start looking around our web site. We have lots of information there --

http://www.foxcollectors.com/factory_letters.htm

bkm3062 · Post by **bkm3062** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:34 pm

Thanks for all the input!

It's really cool owning a shotgun, a well made one, that's almost 100 years old.

This was my grandfathers, not sure if he bought it new or acquired it some other way. My father decided to give the gun to me although I was not that close with his dad.

I have a field gun and I don't get out as much as I used to, so I don't expect to do much shooting with this one.

This one doesn't show much wear, the bluing is good, the stock had a repair made to it but they did a good job. The engraving is worn in a few places and doesn't stand out like I'm sure it did originally.

I saw pictures of one of these that had been restored and the gun was beautiful! I was thinking wouldn't it be nice to show this gun as it was from the factory.

I will not let just anyone touch this as I know that once they start on it you can't go back and not many people know what they're doing. That's why I would consider Turnbull. There's another company of the same calibre doing this type of work but I can't think of the name right now. I read an article recently in on of the outdoors magazines about them and Turnbull.

birdhunter · Post by **birdhunter** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:54 am

Just to let you know I have an A ser. # 129xx which I had lettered and it shipped from the factory April 30, 1909. It also has 30" Krupp barrels and choked mod R and full L . It is indeed a great shooter, I use it mostly on the trap fields. If serial # is any indication your gun would have shipped in early 1909 meaning it's centenial birthday is very close.

bkm3062 · Post by **bkm3062** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:20 pm

Well, I decided to go ahead and get the "ol' girl" restored.

I saw photos of a resored gun that looked great, talked to my dad about it and he said that he would like to see what it looked like new and that he felt that his dad would be happy to hear what I was doing with it, so it's in progress.

It was sent to Doug Turnbulls so it will be in good hands. Turnbulls' puts it on their list, will evaluate it and call me with an estimate and to discuss my options. I do know that for shotguns, the base price is ~$3,500.00, so it is not cheap.

Thanks again to everyone for their input. Will add to this as things progress.

jolly bill · Post by **jolly bill** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:20 am

BKM,

This is what they looked like when they left the factory. This early style A grade is a little later: SN 198XX.

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dragon · Post by **dragon** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:05 am

the subject about restoration has alot of opinions and mine is i do like a good restore job!
especially if they are real rough.
talk to dewey vicknair good guy

jolly bill · Post by **jolly bill** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:52 am

Opinions on restoration . . .

For the cost of about $3500.00 for restoration of your A, that would go a long way towards the purchase of a pretty dandy Fox, a very long way.

I don't think my minty and original early A that I pictured above is worth that much.

But that's what makes the world go 'round, etc.

Jolly

bkm3062 · Post by **bkm3062** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:45 pm

Well, I sent the gun in to Turnbull. They talked me out of restoring her. I knew the stock needed replacing because there's a repaired area that would probably break off with repeated firing, but they said their total cost was $8,500.00! This gun is not worth that to me. I would like to get a second opinion.
And I really don't see all the faults that they see with the gun. Anyway, $1675 for barrel work alone, $1400 to polish the action, $3300 for the butt stock and forend, $1200 for engraving, etc, etc. They REALLY did not want to work on this gun.
So either I pay Turnbull, find someone else to do the job or hang this on the wall and make up stories about it. Not interested in option number 1, it would be nice to have this thing back in service, but the price and quality has to be right. I guess I'll look around some more.

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:09 pm

Wow!!!!!!! In 1991/2 I had Doug completely redo an NID .410-bore and the cost was $515 and $15 shipping. In 2002 he completely redid a Flues 28-gauge for me and it was $1570 and $25 shipping. Neither of my guns needed new wood, but the price of playing in the restoration game is really going up!!!!!

eightbore · Post by **eightbore** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:58 am

I'm sure the gun is a bit on the rough side. We would like to see pictures so we can send you in the right direction.

lee r moege · Post by **lee r moege** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:44 am

I agree with Bill on the price quoted. I have a 2 barrel set not quite as good as his that I would certainly take that kind of money for including it's period 2 barrel leg of mutton case. For stock work you might try my friend and wood supplier Donnie Gemmes at Show-Me-Gunstocks in Warsaw, Mo. I have bought quite a bit of wood from him and his inletting is superb, after all he was one of the top men for Rienhardt Fajen for years. Happy Foxing!!! Lee.

Fox Collectors

Early "A" Grade restoration

Early "A" Grade restoration

Gun was made in 1909

Thanks!

Decided to go for it!

Re: Early "A" Grade restoration

Re: Early "A" Grade restoration

Re: Early "A" Grade restoration

Re: Early "A" Grade restoration