I am a new member and need some help...

dtstevenson · Post by **dtstevenson** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Hello All...I am excited that there is a forum for Fox owners. I have a 12ga Sterlingworth that has been in the family for a long time. I figured it was time for me to fix it up and put it back in use shooting clays. I'd like to know what the approximate age is and where I can find some parts. The serial number is 1107xx. I, unfortunately, need to replace the barrels because these barrel were wrecked a long time ago. It looks like that might be difficult. Can anyone give me some direction on where I might be able to go for this?
I am happy to be a new member and thanks for having me.

dtstevenson · Post by **dtstevenson** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:41 pm

I just answered my first question. According to doublegunshop.com, my gun was made in 1926, pretty cool. I also just found the membership application so I can join the AH Fox Collectors Association which I will do tonight. I want to bring my gun back to it's former glory and am looking forward to the advice I will get from this forum.

TOOL MAN · Post by **TOOL MAN** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:28 pm

Welcome to the asylum "DT" and yes, whether your relationship with Fox guns is casual or passionate, joining our burgeoning little parish, will be the best $25 you will ever spend.

Regarding your quest to bring the "Sterly" back to life, my strong advice, is to proceed with caution. Many on this site ( myself included) have been foiled by the romanticism of bringing a family heirloom back to its glory days, only to find, that the project ends up costing vastly more $ and time, than any sentimental value the gun could possibly deliver. Harsh....but true.

Best to get a few pair of experienced eyes on the trouble spots. What do you mean by "wrecked" barrels?? I can almost guarantee you, if you post a few pics, you will receive a wealth of free but valuable advice on if & how
you should proceed . Good luck.----TOOLMAN

dtstevenson · Post by **dtstevenson** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:45 pm

Thanks Toolman. What I mean by "wrecked" is someone, won't say who but it wasn't me, cut the original 30" barrels and they now measure 26.5" and are uneven. It's a sin, I know, and I'm told it was done in the 50's because the gun was dropped and the barrel ends were very damaged, so they just cut the damage off. I wouldn't mind the gun with 26" barrels, but the chokes, whatever they were, are gone. Not sure what to do with it but the rest of the gun is in good shape and I would really like to clean it up. Is there anything a gunsmith can do with the existing barrels?

gunut · Post by **gunut** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:06 pm

Yes they can ,, and for not a lot of money....since the barrels are still over the standard lengths offered they can be finished back to 26in reblued and a new bead installed and will still look presentable....they can also be fitted with choke tubes or jug choked to throw up to IC patterns...Mike Orlen does this type of work for reasonable prices...Is the rest of the gun in no work needed condition??......Pics would help but it sounds like for 5/600 the family heirloom could be salvaged into a decent looking and performing shooter.....

mc15426378 · Post by **mc15426378** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:20 pm

How about cylinder in the RT, IC in the LT? Would make a heck of a bird gun w/26" barrels. Orlen is reasonable, quick, and does great work.

Mike

dtstevenson · Post by **dtstevenson** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:21 pm

The rest of the gun is pretty good and everything seems tight. Thanks for the good news. Where is Mike Orlen located?

birdawg · Post by **birdawg** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:14 pm

http://users.dls.net/~rdouglas/MikeOrlen.pdf

I am another fan of Mike.
An example: The gun in the First blood thread was purchased on gunbroker from a gent in Mass where Mike lives. I needed open chokes and the gun was the usual IM F chokes. The dealer got my check Friday and shipped the barrels to Mike.
I talked to Mike and told him they were coming, I was quail hunting and needed the chokes open as soon as he could get to the work. Monday morning I got an email from Mike saying the gun arrived Saturday, he did the work Sunday and the barrels were shipped Monday morning. Tracking number included in the email. All total shipping, handling, choke work on both barrels $82 total.

THE FOX · Post by **THE FOX** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:21 pm

Hi DT
I've just noticed Fox, and by what I gather, your are no in bad shape at all. My first fox was and is a SW, that I got at age 13. It has 26' barrels, that I really think were cut before I got it. I have probable shot a ton of shells through it, and never broke nothing but a stock. Of course when I got it, the type of shell to shoot in it never crossed my mind. I was lucky enough to live about 400 yards from my duck blind, and had all kinds of upland game. It was used for everything! I had one gun and that was it. Half of the shells that was shot probably were magnums.....yes magnums.
The 26 inch barrels will work much better than you think, especially if you are an upland hunter. I'm not suggesting that every gun is safe in doing what I did, but I have yet to see a Fox that I was afraid to shoot. By the way, I'm 71 years old and still feel like a kid. At night you will find me watching the news in the living room holding a fox! Have the barrels squared up by a good gunsmith. I'll bet the farm he'll say good for another 100 years! Hey, you might like it!

Bryan

Silvers · Post by **Silvers** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:48 am

dt, welcome here. Thanks for joining up as a regular member; I'm sure you'll find the cost well justified. Before doing anything I'd suggest getting the chokes measured. It can be done with a cheap caliper or inside mike if you have access to one. Your gun may have been cut from 28" and if so there will be decent choke remaining in each barrel. If cut from 30", probably not. In the first scenario just get the muzzles squared off to standard 26" like gunut suggested and the solder and sight redone to make it right. If cut back from 30" you do have a decison to make. If it were me and I had a strong sentimental attachment to the Fox I'd send the barrels to Briley to get their "thinwall" choke system installed. I've had thinwalls installed in several SxS shotguns and the work done by Briley was always superb. Not cheap but no shoddy workmanship to contend with.

The so called jug choking works okay on single barrel guns with heavy barrel walls but I doubt you'll gain much on svelte Fox barrels where the gunsmith needs to maintain sufficient barrel wall thickness for safety in the jugged area. Silvers

birdawg · Post by **birdawg** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:08 am

I have to agree and disagree with Silvers.
First I agree that a accurate measurement is what is needed but, possibly after the barrels are squared up. Only then will you know exactly what you have. I would not worry about if they are 26 or 26.5 or whatever. The more barrel you save the more choke you will have obviously saved. After measuring I would then pattern the gun at ranges you shoot birds at. You may be very pleasantly surprised.

Per spec patterning is done at 40 yards which for most upland bird hunting is a far piece to begin with If your main target is wild roosters in the Dakotas at mid season this may apply. For me 40 yards is a long shot but my usual game is shot over pointing dogs and for the sake of my wild dogs I rarely shoot at none pointed birds. This keeps my shots closer to 20 yards for the first shot. With todays shotshells little choke is need for this type of shooting.

One of my long gone CE's was cut from 30 to 26 and measure cylinder and IC without re-boring. I wanted a little more choke since it was a heavy gun anyway. I had Mike Orlen jug choke the gun and it did tighten the chokes without compromising the safety of the gun.
Caution though, as Silvers said this needs to be done by a very good barrel mechanic. I also have have had brileys put in over and unders but some how while they look better I feel like I am using a poly choke but that is just me.
Let us know what you do and please keep us up todate on the results.

Jess

Silvers · Post by **Silvers** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:22 pm

For those unfamiliar with the Briley thinwall choke system, here's a pic of two choke tubes and a Model 21 VR SxS. Note the choke tubes are very thin and flush with the muzzles; the wrench (not shown) has two tits to engage knotches in the choke tube. Screw thread is a special square-form type, difficult to machine but allowing maximum wall to remain at the muzzles. I believe this is a proprietary Briley system not available to small gunsmiths because of the tooling needed to cut square threads into thin muzzles made of older soft steels. IMO it's excellent for for older SxS's with cut barrels and ~nil choke - when the owner wants to have maximum flexibility to hunt anything with the gun. You really have to look to see the choke tubes in place; both barrels have tubes installed in this pic. It's hardly a Cutts Compensator or big multi-choke gizmo. Silvers

dtstevenson · Post by **dtstevenson** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:41 pm

Thanks everyone. My primary shooting is clay birds so 30" would be nice. I do shoot frequently with a ported 30" Browning and a 24" Benelli Ultralight (this one is challenging). I like the idea of flush choke tubes for better control and more varied shooting and the fact that they stay out of sight. I am going to have my local gunsmith look at them to get his thoughts and still pursue finding some original 30" barrels. I will take some pictures (before and after) of my Sterlingworth and post them in this thread. I also will be needing a new butt plate, but cant imagine that will be as hard to find as barrels.
Thanks again All.
DTS

FRBRIT · Post by **FRBRIT** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:53 am

The Brileys are a nice choke system and I have two guns with them installed.

With that said I have two absolute horror stories of Briley workmanship. One of my own and one from a very close friend of mine. Neither of us will ever send a gun to Briley again for anything.

Go with Mike Orlen he will do you right!

Silvers · Post by **Silvers** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:28 am

FWIW, I'll recount my own experience with Briley's choking work: over the years I've had thinwalls installed in 7 shotguns - two 425 Euro Brownings, 12 and 20 gauge Krieghoffs, Lefever with cutoff barrels, two Model 21 Winchesters. All work was done properly with no go-backs. I've also had Briley open the fixed chokes on four other quality double guns to my decimal specs, and all four came back dead nuts on size as measured by my own bore gauge. None of the 11 guns shot at a tangent afterwards so I conclude they were properly set up and machined. Briley is a substantial company with significant assets and wherewithal to make things right if one of their machinists or gunsmiths goofs up due to human error or whatever. I have toured their facility once when I was in Houston. This is by no means an endorsement of Briley for choking work but rather a recount of my own experience with same. I've never had any other work done by Briley such as rib repairs, jointing, rust bluing, etc. thus I cannot offer any personal judgements on their expertise with that type work.

I'm sure others have equally good multiple data points with other sources for choking work and can recount good feelings as I have. As an old timer used to tell me "ya makes yur choice and ya lives with it". Silvers

Fox Collectors

I am a new member and need some help...

I am a new member and need some help...

family fox..

"wrecked fox"