Philadelphia Arms Company Stock Certificate

[JasonPeck]

This Philadelphia Arms Company stock certificate sold for $450 (plus 25% BP) last night.

"This is stock number 12 for 21 shares of the Philadelphia Arms Company that was formed in 1902 only to be owned later by the A.H. Fox Gun Company. The Fox Company would later incorporate the Philadelphia buildings into the Fox Gun Company by 1905. This stock is issued to Philip "Fireman Phil" DuPont and signed by President Ansley H. Fox. The take-over by the Fox Gun Company appears to be for the purchase of patent rights. The DuPont name has been associated with the manufacture of Black Powder gun powder since colonial times and Fox is associated with up-scale collectable shotguns. A slight tear in the upper right corner; with a beautiful green press seal in the lower left corner. No perforations."

[Silvers]

I must be missing something on collecting Fox paper or any maker's paper for that matter. It’s JMO but paper has no utility or intrinsic value beyond what one of very few are willing to pay for it. And that’s way different than buying and using Fox shotguns for shooting and hunting along with their collecting aspect.

Then I think of Bitcoins. Likewise they have no intrinsic value but there’s a blockchain and many active buyers for them. Consider that one bitcoin was worth about $30K two weeks ago and climbed to $47k yesterday. Yep you can buy a fraction of a bc and they go up and down but you can't argue with the astronomical price trend over the years. I wonder what a PAC stock certificate might bring in a few years? Again all this is JMO.

frank

[Researcher]

Great stock certificate.

However their text is all wrong. Ansley H. Fox left Philadelphia Arms Co., announced in a letter to the trade in December 1904, and by April 1905 had founded A.H. Fox Gun Co. at Wayne & Bristol Streets. In the meantime Philadelphia Arms Co. continued on advertising and selling guns through at least the first half of 1905.

By March 1906 Philadelphia Arms Co. was in receivership and was sold at a Sheriff's Sale July 3, 1906.

Sheriff's Sale Tuesday July 3, 1906.jpg (52.05 KiB) Viewed 6014 times

Philadelphia Arms Co. was purchased at the sale by Philadelphia lawyer William Mac George, Jr. --

By October 6, 1906, Mac George had worked a deal to sell it to Ansley H. Fox, possession to transfer on October 29th.

[Jim Cloninger]

I agree with Frank! Jim

[JasonPeck]

A Mickey Mantle rookie card has no intrinsic value as well. A piece of cardboard. But supply and demand dictates it's worth $5 million dollars. Go figure.

[Researcher]

When Ansley originally founded Philadelphia Arms Co. in November 1902, it was a New Jersey corporation. In October 1903, Philadelphia Arms Co. reincorporated in Pennsylvania and at that time as one of the directors P.F. duPont had 100 shares. So, here in April 1904, Ansley must have gotten Philip to kick in a few more bucks.

[Silvers]

Again JMO but I wouldn't put a random Stock Certificate even issued to duPont and with AHF's signature in the same category as a very rare Mickey Mantle card - owing to some 65+ million baseball fans in the US as compared with a miniscule number of PAC or even AHF aficionados. I'd guess a framed stock certificate would look nice in the gun room or over the fireplace but for the same money I'd rather a framed grouse, fox, duck or sporting print that gets me to remembering or planning things every time I look at it. That's why my reply said I must be missing something on collecting paper. But I do recognize the phrase "your mileage may vary".

frank

[loggy]

I have a 101 Winchester and an 870 Remington in the gun safe that would work for shooting anything I would care to shoot. I hunt with the old guns because I enjoy the history and tradition. I don’t collect paper but appreciate those that do and are willing to share their information. The history is one of the things I enjoy most about this site and the DGJ. I recently had a little 16 gauge find its way into my safe. Yesterday I was surfing the internet trying to find information about its original owner. We are fortunate to have members on this site that will share valuable technical, historical and other information. The sum is greater than the parts. I appreciate all that contribute. John

[eightbore]

What happened to the DuPont E grade? Do one of us now own it? What auction house sold the stock certificate?

[fox-admin]

I enjoy collecting vintage shotgun catalogs, two piece shell boxes, vintage decoys and vintage duck calls. I enjoy shooting and hunting with my old doubles. Most of my friends can't understand owning things that you can't use. But do what makes you happy.

[Researcher]

What happened to the DuPont E grade? Do one of us now own it?

Maybe five years or so after I did my article in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Thirteen, Issue 4, Pages 47 to 55, the collection that I had visited passed through one of the auction houses and I haven't heard of number 836 since.

[200052]

Having been in the machinery business for almost 40 years, I greatly respect Frank's detailed messages
on metal work, and I am very reluctant to disagree with one so expert in several fields. Rather than
question Frank's logic, I would wonder why one cannot do both. In 82 years I have owned dozens of
assorted Fox guns (and a Parker or two) and have been a bird hunter most of my life. However, I also
have a few Fox, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Savage Fox paper items in my safe. Both have jointly
pleased me for many years; and as I become less able to walk all day, I can still sit in the basement
and tinker with my paper collection.

Don't miss the part about how much I enjoy Silver's mechanical articles !

Ed Farrand

[Maggiemollie]

I think a lot has to do with old vintage stuff, no matter what stuff, simply has character, is a piece of history, and in many instances just looks good. It is amazing that almost anything old/vintage has a buyer somewhere. I regret some of the things I threw away before the internet came along making it super easy to look up the potential value of something. And sell it, too.

When the old tin shack at the gun club was demolished in the mid 80s and stuff was being thrown away, I took probably 50-60 empty vintage shot shell boxes from the 20s - 60s, most in good shape, that many of the old timers brought in for display. I ended up throwing them after wondering what was I would do with them and now I see on GB that empty vintage boxes have a market. I also almost threw out some 1960's Roadrunner/Coyote, Bananna Splitz, and Pink Panther posters in really good shape but searched the internet to find that these things are selling for $250-$500. Certainly not getting super rich off them but there is a market. I also have a bunch of old Baroque and Classical musical score books for the organ from growing up that I was going to throw away only to find these things are selling in the $50-$200 range. It made me realize that what I may think of as clutter and worthless is actually treasure to someone else.

[MARSHFELLOW]

Ed 200052,
So very well put. I really enjoy collecting Fox paper as I know you do. Love the history of it all, some of the graphics are great and the information has been so helpful to some of us to understand the history & transitions of the AH Fox Company. The paper is more rare than the guns as it is so perishable in so many different ways. I love finding a piece in high condition like the stock certificate that Jason posted. (I may have owned that piece at one time or one just like it). I may get more enjoyment out of my early gun advertising posters done by some of this country's greatest illustrators portraying outdoor scenes of the day hanging on the walls of my home & office than the guns locked away in my vault 95% of their days.
I, personally, joined the AHFCA because I am a Fox collector. I have little to no interest in shooting clays with my Fox guns, my Perazzi is for that. My upland bird hunting is done with the clunkiest 20ga SW Kautzky trigger gun that I have owned for 35 yrs as it gets the job done very well. I am not a Fox mechanic but I have a real appreciation for those who are. I am a Fox collector, Fox paper & guns. Jason, thanks for posting.
tjw

[Stan Hillis]

I would love to have even a good photocopy of an original A H Fox stock certificate. If anyone knows of a source please let me know.

Thanks

SRH