Appropriate hunting loads for late Sterlingworth

[Dave Erickson]

I'm in the process of sprucing up my 12 ga. Savage/Fox 12 Sterlingworth. My goals all along have been to have an easy to feed and fitting SxS for the summer clay targets, and secondarily a gun that will see a hunt now and then. That said, will the gun be able to handle a pigeon type loading? (1 1/4 oz @ 1200ish fps) And how about the Kent 2 3/4" Bismuth load that is 1 1/16 oz. @ 1325 fps? That's the most benign Bismuth load Kent lists. I'm not looking to "push it," but I'd like to know where the general line is drawn for a later 12 ga. Sterlingworth.

[Dave Erickson]

32 views and not one person bothers to answer. Wow!

[DarylC]

My opinion and it's only my opinion, is that either load you mentioned would be fine on a limited basis but I would'nt feed a steady diet of either through your SW. But then again only in a gun that has been deemed safe to shoot by a qualified doublegun smith. Welcome to the club.

[Jeff S]

Dave, shame on me for not responding, but quite frankly, many of the other members are technically much smarter than I am so I like to "defer" to them. I have invested a significant amount of money in quite a few "vintage" shotguns and I want to treat them kindly. I have chosen to always order 1 oz loads from RST so that I don't have to worry about it. This strategy works fine for "clays". There are other members that are very intelligent, who will tell you that RST shells may not penetrate was well as you would like in hunting applications. While cleaning ducks, I personally have noticed some "shallow" penetration. So, my experience has been to shoot at ducks that are "pretty darn close". Since I am not a gunsmith, and I am not holding your gun in my hands, I will say this... Your barrels will probably handle those loads just fine. If you shoot extensively with the heavier loads, your stock may eventually crack. I am making this prediction based on the guns that I own (2 are cracked) and the countless cracked stocks that can be seen on GI. You have a nice gun. Enjoy it.

[Researcher]

Any of these guns that were in regular use from the late 1920s, the 1930s, the 1940s, the 1950s, the 1960s, the 1970s and even the 1980s, have probably digested their fair share of progressive burning powder, high velocity, loads -- Western Super-X, Remington Nitro Express/Remington Express, Winchester Super-Speed, and Peters High Velocity. From the mid-1950s onwards they probably digested some 2 3/4 inch Magnums too. I'd been playing with Ansley H. Fox doubles for a quarter century before I ever heard any discussion of limiting these old doubles to lighter loads. Now all this original Fox wood is 55 years older than when I started shooting Fox doubles and I have for the last 15 years stuck to 7/8 ounce 1200 fps reloads for my 12-gauge clay target shooting.

[Fin2Feather]

Like Jeff I assumed those much more experienced than I would respond, but here my 2/100 of a dollar: when shooting targets I use the softest things I can find. In my old Parker SBT I've been shooting Herters light target loads but I can't find the spec on their website; hope they're not discontinuing them! I can't say much about 12's for hunting because I rarely shoot mine, but in my 16's I like to stay at or under 1200fps, and I find that 1oz does everything I need it to do. I have shot some of those Kent bismuths at 1300fps in my 16's and have several boxes on hand, but if I had it to do over I'd look at the Rio's as I believe they're 1200fps for the 16. IMHO you won't hurt that Utica Sterly 12 shooting 1-1/4oz at 1300+ for hunting but I wouldn't know why you'd need to for targets.

Later: Yep, I hear Cabela's is phasing out the Herter's shells; pity. They don't have much left according to the website; I went to local store today and found I flat and 5 boxes of 1oz. 12's at 1200fps; bought all they had. The target loads I was shooting were (I think; I have a few boxes left at home) 7/8oz at something like 1140fps; they were awesome, but looks like there's no more of 'em . I guess this is just one more casualty of the merger with BassPro. I keep sticking up for Cabela's but they keep giving me reasons not to!

[Dave Erickson]

Thanks for the replies. I shoot nothing but 7/8 oz for targets even in my modern OU. Sounds like a few pigeon loads down the tubes at birds will be OK.

[Fin2Feather]

Holy cow! I looked at one of the few boxes I have left of those Herter's Low Recoil Target loads: 1oz. at 1060fps! No wonder they felt so sweet in that old Parker. Broke 'em just fine too! Gonna miss those.

[Silvers]

The OP asked about appropriate hunting loads. If I'd owned the cited 12-gauge Utica Fox 40 years ago I'd be hunting with 1-1/8 ounce Field loads at ~1220 speed or 1-1/4 ounce high brass loads at 1330 and both with appropriate pellet sizes depending on the game. And if in known unaltered/safe condition I'd hunt with the same loads in that Fox today.

Let's talk about the so-called "low pressure" shells. They're typically put up at relatively low velocity and will have lesser striking energy/pellet in a given shot charge. They're certainly soft shooting and OK for clays but are questionable for live animals except with much restraint and at closer range. I've seen too many animals with shallow pellet wounds that fortunately were brought to bag, also too many that escaped to suffer and die. And that's by a guy who's a decent shot. We're supposed to be sportsmen/women and I hope that bothers you as much as it does me.

Old wood? Rough number, since starting sporting clays shooting over 20 years ago I've fired > 40,000 shots just through various Foxes most of them with original stocks and have never developed a wood crack. That "old dry wood" thing seems to have been started by aficionados of another American boxlock and perhaps that maker's design is conducive to the cracking of wood in the head of the stock, but IME I can't subscribe to fretting over Foxes with sound original stocks.

Let's be doing practice and using enough gun and enough of a shotshell when out hunting with our Foxes.

[snakeeater]

The OP asked about appropriate hunting loads. If I'd owned the cited 12-gauge Utica Fox 40 years ago I'd be hunting with 1-1/8 ounce Field loads at ~1220 speed or 1-1/4 ounce high brass loads at 1330 and both with appropriate pellet sizes depending on the game. And if in known unaltered/safe condition I'd hunt with the same loads in that Fox today.

Let's talk about the so-called "low pressure" shells. They're typically put up at relatively low velocity and will have lesser striking energy/pellet in a given shot charge. They're certainly soft shooting and OK for clays but are questionable for live animals except with much restraint and at closer range. I've seen too many animals with shallow pellet wounds that fortunately were brought to bag, also too many that escaped to suffer and die. And that's by a guy who's a decent shot. We're supposed to be sportsmen/women and I hope that bothers you as much as it does me.

Old wood? Rough number, since starting sporting clays shooting over 20 years ago I've fired > 40,000 shots just through various Foxes most of them with original stocks and have never developed a wood crack. That "old dry wood" thing seems to have been started by aficionados of another American boxlock and perhaps that maker's design is conducive to the cracking of wood in the head of the stock, but IME I can't subscribe to fretting over Foxes with sound original stocks.Steve, Well said , I agree . Shot a lot of live birds in the ring with 31/4 I I/4 with no ill effects.

Let's be doing practice and using enough gun and enough of a shotshell when out hunting with our Foxes.

[Dave Erickson]

That’s all good to hear. This Sterlingworth has the makings of a fine pheasant gun and it’s good to know it’s up to the task.

[Stan Hillis]

32 views and not one person bothers to answer. Wow!

Maybe it wasn't because it was a "bother". Maybe it was because they didn't know the answer for sure, and didn't want to lead you astray. Just sayin'.

SRH

[Dave Erickson]

Maybe, Stan.