"Fox" Philly gun education

[Bill Graham]

Hi Folks.
What are the highlights a person needs to know about the old "Fox" guns? Happened upon a 12ga, sn 1488. 30", full/full, Krupp, simple border engraving, forend latch like a Parker, and three trigger plate screws. Appreciate any general info. Will of course be ordering a letter on this one if I get it.
Thanks!

[OH Osthaus]

Grade?

[Bill Graham]

Grade?

I don't know. I was hoping that the description might help identify a grade.

[Rogue Hunter]

Early "pin" gun? What is the serial number?

[FoxintheHenHouse]

He has serial number listed as 1488

FoxintheHenHouse

[jolly bill]

Hi Folks.
What are the highlights a person needs to know about the old "Fox" guns? Happened upon a 12ga, sn 1488. 30", full/full, Krupp, simple border engraving, forend latch like a Parker, and three trigger plate screws. Appreciate any general info. Will of course be ordering a letter on this one if I get it.
Thanks!

You have a PAC: Philadelphia Arms Company "FOX"

Made in 12 gauge only in grades A, B, C and I think D.

Researcher/Dave N. should be along shortly to add more and better detail and the number of those guns he has observed/recorded.

Jolly

[Bill Graham]

Thanks Jolly. I’d assume then that this is an A grade, figuring that A would be the lowest grade.

I sent Researcher the number and specs on the gun earlier today for his records.

[jolly bill]

Thanks Jolly. I’d assume then that this is an A grade, figuring that A would be the lowest grade.

I sent Researcher the number and specs on the gun earlier today for his records.

Yep, looks like an A grade and probably marked as such on the barrel flats/water table.

Jolly

[Researcher]

Generally speaking Philadelphia Arms Co. didn't mark a grade letter on the A-grades, just B and higher.

https://www.foxcollectors.com/pre-fox-g ... lphia-arms

In addition to the guns up to 1845 listed in the above information, a while back a bunch of pieces of 1846 were for sale on ebay. Then there is an "outrider" that has surfaced with a serial number of 2650, a BE-Grade if you will, with ejectors and a Monte Carlo stock. However, the ejectors on 2650 don't look anything like the Max Wirsing ejector Patent that Philadelphia Arms Co. had. In the 80 Philadelphia Arms Co. guns I've recorded in nearly thirty years, there are 63 A-Grades, 8 B-grades, 5 C-Grades, 1 D-Grade, 2 E-Grades and the "outrider" BE-Grade.

[MARSHFELLOW]

Holy smokes Dave, you have recorded 80 PAC guns??..... I think I've handled 4 or 5 in my 40 years of interest in Fox guns.
tjw

[Bill Graham]

What year was this one made, and can a factory letter be generated for them?
Are these still considered a Fox?
What is mechanically different internally from the Fox action more commonly known?
Anything prone to being problematic i.e. part breakage?

Thank you.

[Researcher]

1905. No.

Yes.

Totally different cocking mechanism.

Lock Mechanism 1905 catalog

April 22, 1905, American Field

[Rogue Hunter]

How was the build quality on these guns?

[Researcher]

Every bit as good as the early A.H. Fox Gun Co. Just remember these Philadelphia Arms Co. Fox doubles are all 113 or 114 years old.

By 1907, the A.H. Fox Gun Co. was building their Ansley H. Fox double in the factory originally built for Philadelphia Arms Co.

Just in time to be dealt the blow of the Depression of 1907.