Advice Please for a Fox Newbie

[rWt]

Hello,

I am a new member to this forum and the Collector's Association.

I do not presently own a A.H. Fox shotgun. My focus is on obtaining a lightweight small bore shotgun for hunting upland birds and secondarily for clays. Thus, I am considering a Fox 20 or 16ga with lightweight barrels.

How should I think about the "value" of one Fox versus another? For example-how do I think about a A Grade 20 gauge that has been restocked and its chambers lengthened versus say a Sterlingworth that is original, but I may have to futz a lot with the stock to get to to fit me and possibly lengthen the chambers. Is there a general rule that a "A" grade is worth 1.x Times a Sterlingworth, all else being equal? Is there really a $ premium for Philadelphia guns?

Likewise, what is the "best" way to become familiar with prices? I have scanned the different auction sites as well as a few dealers and there are obviously wide variations in "asking" prices. I understand that it's not possible to really gage the soundness of a gun from photos and descriptions on the internet. Thus, it's hard for me to tell if Sterlingworth A is a better gun/deal than Sterlingworth B.

Thank you-any advice will be greatly appreciated.

[FoxintheHenHouse]

As for a price basis, The condition of the gun determines the price, along with, what grade it is. Any modifications, such as replaced stock may hurt value, but that translates to a lower price usually. There are a lot of variables, barrel length, any rust or pitting, dents in the barrel, cracks in the wood, pitted bores, over reamed out bores, loose ribs, broken parts, the list goes on & on. I have seen 20 gauge Sterlingworths go anywhere from $1500 to low to mid $2000s (for a 30"gun) Fox A grade 20s sell for $4000 to high $4000s and ejector guns go into the low $5000s or a bit higher. Die hard collectors will make a big deal of Phila. guns, but myself as a hunter, mostly, I don't see much difference in a Philadelphia or a Utica gun. Just the price itself, is what I think guides most hunter/collectors as far as what they are going to buy. I suggest you watch the listings on Gunsinternatiuonal for a while just to see what is presented. But, 20 or even 16 gauge A grade guns don't come up very often. So patience is needed. In the end, pick out something you like and that fits your budget.

FoxintheHenHouse

[fox-admin]

It is always much better to buy original condition regardless of the grade. The best approach is attend one of the side by side shoots and just look and learn, don't be to fast to part with your cash. Internet gun buying is not for the beginner with little knowledge, a better bet is work with a trusted dealer.

[Jeff S]

This is my "2 cents worth" and it is probably worth exactly that (2 cents). I think prices are a little high on Guns International. I'm not saying that I've never purchased a gun "online", but they seem high to me. I think its more fun, and a better value, to buy from a fellow Fox enthusiast while attending the SxS event at Hidden Hollow (June 7-9). You get to handle the gun, and I think the guys are fair. As an added bonus, they will probably tell you more about it's history than you care to hear. Welcome to the group.

[FoxintheHenHouse]

This is my "2 cents worth" and it is probably worth exactly that (2 cents). I think prices are a little high on Guns International. I'm not saying that I've never purchased a gun "online", but they seem high to me. I think its more fun, and a better value, to buy from a fellow Fox enthusiast while attending the SxS event at Hidden Hollow (June 7-9). You get to handle the gun, and I think the guys are fair. As an added bonus, they will probably tell you more about it's history than you care to hear. Welcome to the group.

I think buying only from members or at SxS shoots, which may be commendable, really limits what you will see that is "available for sale" and might add quite a bit of time (years) in waiting to buy, unless time means nothing in your search.
I don't mind buying on line from a reputable dealer, especially if you have a 3 day return on it. But, as it has turned out for me many times, my favorite guns have come from "as is" sales.

FoxintheHenHouse

[Jeff S]

rWt, I checked your "profile", but you didn't give a location. Can I ask what state you live in?

[rWt]

Michigan-East of Detroit

[Jeff S]

Well, last weekend was the Michigan Antique Arms gun show in Novi. That show is held 4 times a year and there are usually a few guns there (For instance, I saw 2 16 ga. Sterlingworths Saturday). I've heard that the gun show in Louisville is really good. It's coming up on February 24 & 25th. I've never been to it, but I'm thinking about it. Happy hunting!

[Researcher]

The best advice is don't. Don't get involved with old wood, old metal, old solder, short chambers, bad stock dimensions, etc. Buy a new RBL -- new wood, new metal, good dimensions, "Cryo Pattern" stress relieved barrels with "Tuff Bore" coating allowing you to use any type of loads, the 12- and 20-gauges come with choke tubes, etc.

[rWt]

Well, last weekend was the Michigan Antique Arms gun show in Novi. That show is held 4 times a year and there are usually a few guns there (For instance, I saw 2 16 ga. Sterlingworths Saturday). I've heard that the gun show in Louisville is really good. It's coming up on February 24 & 25th. I've never been to it, but I'm thinking about it. Happy hunting!

Thanks. I plan to go to the show in April.

I've heard mixed reviews on the RBL. Lots of choices in that price category: Webley & Scott 700's, for instance.

[Jeff S]

The best advice is don't. Don't get involved with old wood, old metal, old solder, short chambers, bad stock dimensions, etc. Buy a new RBL -- new wood, new metal, good dimensions, "Cryo Pattern" stress relieved barrels with "Tuff Bore" coating allowing you to use any type of loads, the 12- and 20-gauges come with choke tubes, etc.

Excellent advice.!!!!! Of course the only reason we're on this web site is because we all love old wood, old metal, old solder and short chamber. If we were smart we would all own just two guns, a Super Black eagle for ducks and a Citori for upland.

[snakeeater]

The best advice is don't. Don't get involved with old wood, old metal, old solder, short chambers, bad stock dimensions, etc. Buy a new RBL -- new wood, new metal, good dimensions, "Cryo Pattern" stress relieved barrels with "Tuff Bore" coating allowing you to use any type of loads, the 12- and 20-gauges come with choke tubes, etc.

Excellent advice.!!!!! Of course the only reason we're on this web site is because we all love old wood, old metal, old solder and short chamber. If we were smart we would all own just two guns, a Super Black eagle for ducks and a Citori for upland.

WELL SAID!!!!

[bamboozler]

The best advice is don't. Don't get involved with old wood, old metal, old solder, short chambers, bad stock dimensions, etc. Buy a new RBL -- new wood, new metal, good dimensions, "Cryo Pattern" stress relieved barrels with "Tuff Bore" coating allowing you to use any type of loads, the 12- and 20-gauges come with choke tubes, etc.

[gunut]

buy a Savage era gun....good stock dimensions, solid build, and you can buy 10 for the price of a rbl....and it will still be considered an original....

[mobirdhunter]

Regardless of the course of action you take based on the advice you've gotten here, I would suggest that whatever you buy or the path you take to acquire your first Fox, you will probably want something else (or more) later, and your taste will likely change as you get better acquainted with these fine old doubles. And remember, there is no cure once you're infected.