My continuing education regarding chokes

[Jeff S]

In my younger days, I only knew of Full, Mod and Imp Cyl chokes. Then I became acquainted with the Fox guys and everything switched to "points of constriction". Next, I started looking for guns "on line" and discovered terms like quarter choke and half choke. So, I printed off a little conversion chart, which I keep at home, so that I can keep all of these chokes straight in my mind. Today I learned some new terminology. I has handling a GORGEOUS Parker 20 ga. skeet gun with 26" barrels, single trigger and a checker butt (no, I'm not going to buy it). Anyway, the chokes were labeled "skeet in" and "skeet out". Does anyone know the "points of constriction" on "skeet in" and "skeet out"? Jeff

[OH Osthaus]

Well. Skeet choke is about 5 thousands

Some one ( maybe Winchester) came up with Skeet 1 and Skeet 2. Being about 3 and 8 respectively

There was a European skeet which was reverse choke. More open than cylinder. I wonder if that is Skeet "out"

[Sporrns]

I've come to the conclusion that they ("S in / S out")In true Parker skeet guns are roughly equivalent in in measurement to the chokes in the Savage Fox Skeet & Upland Game Guns. Savage refers to the borings as "Skeet/Cylinder" and "improved Cylinder", and up to now the 3 Savage guns I've measured (all 16s) miked out at .004- 5 in the right barrel and .010-11 in the left barrel. To me it sounds right and roughly equivalent. Kevin

[Jeff S]

The explanation I was given is that "Skeet In" is used for incoming birds while shooting skeet and "skeet out" is used for birds leaving the scene. So, if I was at station 1 on a skeet field, I guess (if I understand this correctly) I would use "skeet out" for the high house and "skeet in" for the low house. Good thing this gun had a single selective trigger! You guys know a lot about this stuff. If my understanding is incorrect, please straighten me out. I won't be offended.

[kgb]

Running a gauge through the barrels is the way to know for sure, but I would think someone in the Parker world has already done that to several sample barrels and could report their results.

Winchester's WS1 is flared at the muzzle but I read they actually have .004-.005" of constriction and when I bought a 12ga Skeet 21 that's exactly what mine had. Following the constriction the choke indeed reversed about .011" by the end of the barrel. The WS2 left barrel had .014" IIRC, jibing with what I'd read about them being roughly a loose modified constriction.

[Silvers]

Jeff, the proprietary Winchester WS-1 choke and the Fox "Skeet-Cylinder" choke both have an hourglass profile with slight taper going into the choke and an acute/reverse taper exiting, and with either one the muzzle diameter is larger than the bore diameter. They were designed for well distributed patterns at relatively short range; that's with bare shot ahead of fiber wads. The Big Red W did significant R&D work to come up with its design and Fox/Utica probably copied it. I often shoot Winchester Model 12 and 21 Skeet guns with WS-1 chokes in 12 & 20 and 16 respectively on sporting clays courses and they do well even at moderate range birds with some modern plastic shot cup ammo.

Otherwise here's the nomenclature and accepted efficiencies for conventional chokes with bare shot/fiber wads.

True Cylinder (40% efficiency)
Skeet 1
Improved Cylinder aka 1/4 choke (45%) - about 10 points in 12-gauge
Light Modified/Skeet 2
Modified aka 1/2 choke (50%) - about 20 points in 12-gauge
Improved Modified aka 3/4 choke (60%) - about 30 points in 12-gauge
Full (70%) - about 40 points in 12-gauge
Super-Fox ( ~ 80% with exact test shell) - 46 to 52 points or so "as tuned"

The points of constriction will decrease proportionally with the smaller bore diameters in 16 and 20 gauge.

Now I have a headache .....

frank

[foxgun]

Read in Schwing's book on M21's that WS1 choke patterns tended to fall apart past 20-25 yds. Never have patterned mine to see, but then I don't use it for anything much farther than that, put on a different barrel combination if I expect longer shots.

[Researcher]

Savage refers to the borings as "Skeet/Cylinder" and "improved Cylinder"

The Savage era A.H. Fox catalogs that show the Skeet & Upland Game Guns, both Fox-Sterlingworth and SP-/SPE-Grades, give the chokes as "right barrel, skeet cyl., left barrel quarter choke."

1935

1937

My 12-gauge guns are bored that way and the John Callahan letter for my 16-gauge Fox-Sterlingworth Skeet & Upland Game Gun states "Skeet Cylinder (R) & 1/4 Choke (L)" but, it mics .009"right and .017" left with bores of .660"?!?

I've never measured a Parker skeet gun, but Remington "Sportsman" and Model 31 SKEET barrels of the era measure much like Savage's Skeet Cylinder or Winchester's WS-1. For me, Winchester's WS-2 in the Model 21 Skeet Guns and the S & S chokes on Ithaca NID and Lefever A-Grade skeet guns are way too tight for NSSA style skeet.

[Jeff S]

You guys always have "the knowledge". Thanks!