Philadelphia Arms Co. Fox D grade.

Live Bird · Post by **Live Bird** » Sat May 03, 2008 4:04 pm

I have recently been fortunate enough to acquire a Philadelphia Arms Co. Fox sn 348. It happens to be a D grade & is in quite nice original condition. I will try to post some pictures. Any information regarding it is greatly appreciated. I am especially interested in how many D grade Philadelphia Arms guns were produced, if the gun is capable of being lettered and any opinions on its value.
JJV
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10 ... G_0616.jpg
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http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10 ... G_0617.jpg
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http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10 ... G_0620.jpg
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http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10 ... G_0619.jpg
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http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10 ... G_0618.jpg
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http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10 ... G_0621.jpg
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http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10 ... G_0605.jpg
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http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10 ... G_0602.jpg

66fordking · Post by **66fordking** » Sat May 03, 2008 4:48 pm

Live bird: look at the link to HE 20 bore scroll down a bit and Mike Campbell has a provided how to do that it should help you post your pics. Tim

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:34 pm

Sweet!!! Of the 33 Philadelphia Arms Co. guns I've recorded so far, I have two E-Grades, three C-Grades, three B-Grades and all the rest A-Grades. Yours is the first D-Grade I've heard of, and looks like a pretty darn nice one too! Congrats on a great find. I've recorded Philadelphia Arms Co. guns with serial numbers from 78 to 1845. I've had reports of a gun in the 2600 range but haven't seen it or any pictures.

The Philadelphia Arms Co. records are apparently long gone, so no letter. What is the barrel length of this gun?

Thank you for sharing.

Live Bird · Post by **Live Bird** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:49 pm

Barrel length is 30" choked full and IM.
The engraving on the gun is very fine and highly detailed especially the dogs and landscape. On the bottom of the action where there are two quail near a split rail fence, there is actually a barn and a church in the background. Magnification must be used to see these as they are about the size of a pencil point. Any idea who the engraver was? It looks very similar in style to the earlier pre 1900 LC's Ive seen in books.
Anyone want to take a guess at value for insurance purposes?
Regards,
JJV

66fordking · Post by **66fordking** » Sat May 03, 2008 5:59 pm

WOW!!!!! you are a very lucky man!

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Sat May 03, 2008 6:09 pm

I like the rose on the top lever. I actually in just checking back through my stuff found pictures of just an A-Grade receiver, serial number 59, so add one more to my table of observed PAC guns.

These higher grade PAC guns appear so seldom it is very tough to value them. Years ago Tom Gibbons was asking $6500 for C-Grade #792, and some years before that a dealer threw down 60 C-notes in front of me wanting my C-grade straight grip Pigeon Gun. I can easily see a nice Philadelphia Arms D-Grade being over ten grand at one of the bigger dealers.

Somebody said some time back that the duPont E-Grade I did the article on in The Double Gun Journal, Volume Thirteen, Issue 4, was going to be coming up for auction, but I haven't heard any more? I just looked back at that article and the color separation done by Cote's printers pisseth me off all over again!!

Live Bird · Post by **Live Bird** » Sat May 03, 2008 7:50 pm

Thanks much for the information. I do feel lucky to have stumbled upon it.
If anyone would like any more or specific pictures for reference or just to look at, I can get some on in the next day or so since I have finally figured out how to use Photobucket.
JJV

birdawg · Post by **birdawg** » Sat May 03, 2008 9:09 pm

Great gun man!

I would love to see close ups of the engraving.
I am beginning to get the drift that you guy in in PA find all the goodies

R.R. · Post by **R.R.** » Sat May 03, 2008 10:32 pm

Wow, what a nice find... price, too late to worry about that now.
Early engravers seemed to do whatever work was presented to them. Didn't seem to matter if they were local, or located out of town. Some of the engraving says 'a Glahn' to me, some doesn't. There is just so little known or documented on the early engravers... just another 'worker' in the process.
The gun appears to have had some refinishing work done in the past, but my favorite saying is "show me another".... my other is "they built thousands of those things". Your gun is unique.
I'd appreciate any more pics, if you're sending.
Tom Gibbons????
Thanks for sharing.
Rick

TOOL MAN · Post by **TOOL MAN** » Sun May 04, 2008 12:12 am

...stumbling onto a "cherry" PAC D-grade..........priceless

Awesome gun!!!! Congrats. Hopefully, Fox-Admin will add it, to our directory.

TOOL

Live Bird · Post by **Live Bird** » Sun May 04, 2008 9:41 am

No, it did not come from Tom Gibbons. I walked into a small local shop last week because I heard there was a 26" field grade LC in nice shape. I bought the LC and the owner handed me the D grade and said "here look at this thing." My jaw dropped as I thought it was a B grade Parker from a foot away. Well I guess a D grade Philadelphia Arms Gun is pretty good too. It took the shop owner about a week to put a price on it. When he did, it had to come home with me. It was out of a large collection of over 100 various guns he bought. I looked at most of the collection and the best ones are the LC and the D grade so I got lucky.

I don't really suspect any refinishing. I thought the trigger guard had been touched up at one time but there is a small amount of rust here and there into the blueing and not blueing over it. Both the trigger guard and barrels show brown and oxidaton under a bright light so I don't think so.

The few Faults I find with it are some light and a couple of moderate pits in the bores which really aren't too bad and the ivory bead is broken off of the end of the barrels. Other than that it is tight with some nice case color left. Mechanically it is great.

If the administrator would like to add it to the directory I am certainly OK with that.

I'll post some more pictures later on today.

Jared

Live Bird · Post by **Live Bird** » Sun May 04, 2008 10:45 am

birdawg · Post by **birdawg** » Sun May 04, 2008 11:06 am

Those are great do you have photos of the engraving on the otherside and the bottom of the reciever?
Thanks for letting us look at your find.
jess

Live Bird · Post by **Live Bird** » Sun May 04, 2008 11:18 am

Jess,
Its really hard for me to photograph the detail of the engraving. It looks much better in person than in my pictures for sure. Here are two more:
Jared V.
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http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10 ... G_0636.jpg
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http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn10 ... G_0637.jpg

birdawg · Post by **birdawg** » Sun May 04, 2008 12:05 pm

Thanks for those also. I took the liberty of messing with your shots a bit. What I did doesn't flatter the gun but I think it helps seeing the engraving detail in your lovely piece.