Am I out of touch?

[Doug Mann]

Last Sunday I attended an auction that had an A grade 20 gauge with 26" barrels up for bid. The on-line pictures of the gun showed what appeared to be an original finish, high condition gun. The auction description also stated that the gun had "special order checkering". I suppose that was to explain the checkered cheek panels.

A collector friend asked me to bid on the gun for him if I thought was right but here's what I found when I had the gun in my hand. The gun, in my opinion had been re-case colored over pitting on the breech face. There was no letter to verify the "special order checkering". It had a Packmayr Old English pad installed with a LOP of 14 1/8", so I'm guessing that the stock had been cut. There was proud metal at the bottom edges of the frame and the butt stock caused by either wear or a heavy handed refinish. I called my friend and told him what I found and he said ha would pass.

The gun sold for $4000!!!!!!!!!! and the buyer looked like he had just scored the prize of a lifetime. Am I that out of touch that I don't know what these little guns are selling for these day?????????

Doug

[terc]

The buyer that spent $4000.00 is the one out of touch.
Dave

[vaturkey]

Doug, was the buyer on site?

I know all things are relative, but I personally went and inspected a 20 gauge CE locally about a year ago. First the gun required restocking. Had some pitting here and there and more importantly in my mind the barrels had issues. Significant pitting at the barrel ends and I felt they were to far gone. That gun with those issues sold for well over 5 grand on GB. It surfaced after restocking on a well known dealers website at over 12K. As I recall the min barrel wall thickness was 23 and 26 thousands respectively. Anyway, the gun was resold as it is no longer listed. That wasn't a A grade of course, but it does show you these small bore Foxes are insane as far a pricing goes and for the most part the 12 gauge's are an absolute bargain. Hell, 12 Gauge Sterlingworths in nice condition sell for almost nothing. Hard to believe, but as the old saying goes it only takes two who want it to drive up the bidding to insane levels quickly.

[Researcher]

A pretty darn nice early Savage-era AE-Grade 20-gauge with Phily style top-lever and safety slide went for $6900 at the Julia's Auction yesterday. The buggered trigger plate screw must have held it back!

[Doug Mann]

I did forget to mention the "4" stamped HARD on each barrel in case we might not notice that they were 4 weight barrels. I've handled a few, not many, Foxes with 4 wgt barrels and they had no weight marking left so I have no idea what the font is for a true Fox stamp. Also, this gun was a non-ejector - just a straight "A".

The new owner was on site and was sitting directly in front of me. Like I said he was a happy camper!

Researcher, what can I say, those Savage top levers really not pretty IMHO. I have a 12 ga. in the shop that belongs to a friend and it reminds me of a Lollipop. I hope I haven't offended anyone by that statement - its just me.

Doug

[eightbore]

Doug, we buy what we like. Remember the last gun you bought from me. Your friend Bill Murphy.

[fox-admin]

The price differential between small bore Foxes (or Parkers) and 12ga guns just keeps on growing. It is amazing how fast prices are rising.
I am not sure why but maybe because so must bird hunting is done on preserves these days in the eastern half of the country. Small bores are more than adequate on preserve birds from quail to pheasants.
Dove hunting is also a small bore activity as is grouse and woodcock hunting. Grouse and woodcock hunters I know seem to be like waterfowl hunters---always searching for the perfect gun. They normally have more than one small bore in the safe.
The demand for small bore vintage guns just keeps growing and the supply is shrinking. Maybe the same market forces are effecting English SxS's since the majority of them are 12's. The English market for SxS's is soft according to many dealers and recent auction results.

[Fin2Feather]

Guess I won't be adding an A grade 20 to the cabinet any time soon !

[Mike of the Mountain]

Guess I won't be adding an A grade 20 to the cabinet any time soon !

Pretty much in the same mindset as you Fin. I don't mind paying for good quality, but sometimes prices are just STUPID!!

[orpington]

What is a decent 20 gauge Sterlingworth worth these days? Any cheaper if from the Savage days?

12 ga Sterlingworth's in nice condition can still be had for $500 in my neck of the woods and the price doesn't seem to be going anywhere!

[vaturkey]

What is a decent 20 gauge Sterlingworth worth these days? Any cheaper if from the Savage days?

12 ga Sterlingworth's in nice condition can still be had for $500 in my neck of the woods and the price doesn't seem to be going anywhere!

IMO only

It depends on condition. Lots of case color and ejectors and your looking at $2,500 for a 20 gauge. For a standard normal use 20 gauge with no ejectors and 28" barrels you probably looking at $1,500 to $1,800. Some are more some are less. I think the Savage guns with the bulky forearm and non-capped pistol grip probably are about 10% cheaper then the Philly featured guns.

12 gauge shooter grade Sterlingworth's seem to run from $500 to $700. Also think the 16 gauges are worth about 50% more then the 12 gauges in normal condition. The 20 gauge is the one most folks want it seems.