My first fox

[Smokepole Shooter]

Well after a considerable search, I have finally found my shotgun. My Sterlingworth is a 16 gauge with 2 1/2 chambers, 26" barrels and according to the tag at the shop wieghs 5 lb, 15 oz. I couldn't be more happy with the purchase. I also stumbled on the website recently and will no doubt be joining the Collectors Association. Anyways I've added a couple of pics[
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[TOOL MAN]

Welcome to the asylum, Smokepole!! Pics are a little fuzzy but she looks like a real "screamer"!! Nothing sweeter than a 16b Fox....what a dynamite bird gun!! Hope to see you on the mebership roster very soon. Believe me, it's the best $30 you will ever spend and just getting the key to our private "Members Only Forum" is well worth the price of admission. Good luck with your new arrival.-----TOOL

PS----I assume by that moniker you are a fan of black powder shooting?? There are a few of us here who also love those wonderful long rifles from the great state of Pennsylvania!! Too many passions.....too little time!!!!

[Smokepole Shooter]

Thanks Tool Man. I will try to take some better pictures. You are right I am a black powder fan. It has been my passion for the past 15 years or so. Within the past two I have began to gravitate towards side by side shotguns. I cut my teeth on an old side by side whippet 16 gauge of dad's and always had a soft spot for doubles and 16's. I hope to be able to attend some shoots and put some names with faces as well.

This site has already been a great source of information. Initially I thought this would be a 1 gun thing for me, but a 12 bore choked a bit tighter with longer barrels would probably make a nice addition to my 16.......

[TOOL MAN]

"I thought this would be a 1 gun thing for me..." Ohhhhhhhhh, how many times have we heard that one before!! If you thought black powder was addicting, get ready to main-line some real Heroin......LOL!!!!

Hoooooo-rahhhhh to flint meeting frizzen!!! Here's a pic of one cold-ass day in the CT woodlands with a contemporary though historically correct, Jacob Dickert .45 flinter, built by a very skilled CT smith.

[Smokepole Shooter]

That's a dandy, here are a couple of mine

[Silvers]

Welcome to the site Smokepole; I sure hope you join up and get even more hooked on the Finest Gun in the World like many of us here. I've had black powder in my blood since I was 11 years old and started making my own powder for homemade muzzleloading guns, rockets and fireworks. Here's a pre-French & Indian War style longrifle, modern made, out on a hunt this winter. 60 caliber, 44" barrel, early Jaeger style lock. Any readers who've never fired a good flintlock, properly set up and with a good flint, cannot appreciate how very fast the rifle will fire, almost instantaneous.

[Smokepole Shooter]

Silvers, that's a great looking rifle. I've always liked that big R E Davis lock, throws a shower of sparks. I think I found a new home!!

[TOOL MAN]

Wow.....beautiful "charcoal burners" guys!! Roger that Silvs, on the firing/lock time when everything is done properly and of course the weather cooperates. Amazing how deadly accurate they can be, too!! I regret not moving up to at least a .50 cal. I know the .45 has killed a sh#$-load of venison especially back in the day but when that 10 Ptr comes to the horns ( not that its happened to me yet) yuh get to thinking how tiny that little ball really is. Hey, you know what they say: "Aim small.......miss small !!"

Melchoir Fordney

[Silvers]

Melchoir, not to worry on the 45 caliber. A 40 is plenty for deer. My first real flinter was a 45 caliber and its patched round ball backed by 75 gr of FFG went clear through the shoulders of the first whitetail buck I killed in the first primitive weapons season here in PA. I well remember the day. There was about 6" of snow and the buck came down a trail and stopped about 50 yards away when I whistled. He took off at the shot and went all of about 20 yards before dropping like a box of rocks. And on both sides of the track it looked like someone had carried a red paint bucket with big holes in it. One of my brothers now owns that longrifle. The rifle I posted here is 60 caliber and admittedly it's way overkill but she was made to be a transitional piece between the early large caliber Jaegers and the plain early longrifles that emerged afterwards.

Martin Meylin

[Stan Hillis]

I agree completely that. 45 cal. is gracious plenty for deer sized game. Not that I advocate it, but I once killed a buck while squirrel hunting with my. 36 cal Appalachian style longrifle. I was loaded with a .350 patched ball over 25 gr. fffg. My trigger was set and the rifle was on halfcock when the buck jumped up from his bed and ran quartering away. I finished cocking it as it came to my shoulder. Swinging ahead of his nose aways I touched the set trigger when the lead looked right. The ball took him in the neck and he piled up. Soft lead balls are awesome killers, but it's where you put it that counts.

Nice gun! Congratulations on your first Fox.

John Bean

[TOOL MAN]

SMOKEPOLE,

You can't make this stuff up!!! I would hope that with entertainment like this, your $30 paypal or check has already been sent!!!
I think we're closing-in on the 300 member mark. Just remember what they say at Public Television. "If not now, when....if not you, who?"-----Jacob Kuntz

PS----And we haven't even started on flyfishing, yet!!!!!!!!

[kgb]

Anyone here chronograph their muzzleloaders? I began my black powder days using Elephant brand 2f and 3f, with their 4f for the pan, and when I got around to sending shots over the screens was amazed at how short the numbers fell of what was listed in Thompson Center literature. I switched to Swiss and the numbers came much closer to the listings, although shooting at 50 yards range I don't think absolute velocity is too critical.

I started off with a 1:66 PA Hunter flintlock, as back in PA a roundball was required (is it still?), then bought a caplock model of the same rifle and luckily it has a much better trigger. Next rifle will be a flintlock and have a very nice trigger or perhaps a set trigger. Don't think I'll go as far as the beauties posted here, the TVM lineup is where I'll start the search. The T/C guns are so easy to take down for cleaning the barrel separately from the stock, but it doesn't look like most of the custom built guns are made that way.

Especially at the closer ranges, I believe a roundball is plenty and a .490 has been enough for shooting I've done. However, the last deer I shot was nearly perfectly broadside, with me kneeling at the deer's level, and the ball destroyed the near lung without passing across to the off side. The deer didn't run far before laying down, lowering its head and appearing out. When I got up and walked over it took off for about 40 yards then stood still for a second shot into the left side lung. That one ignited a run of probably just under 100 yards where it piled up for good, but it seemed that a minie style might have gone through on the first shot. Hard to conclude from a single event like that, roundballs have worked very well otherwise.

Here's one of the flintlock's does:


This buck was shot straight on, the roundball drove from between the shoulder and neck and exited in front of a hind leg. I think this was the first one for the caplock:



The last deer, one shot through each lung.

[Stan Hillis]

kgb,

I used to chronograph mine, back in the days that I competed in NMLRA and Levi Garrett roundball shoots. I was pretty serious about it from the early-80s through about 2003. I lost that extremely keen edge on my eyesight, which I valued so greatly for open sight comp, got hooked on sporting clays competition, and kinda drifted away. Back then, I went to great lengths to determine the best loads for my rifles, testing thoroughly to squeeze every fraction of an inch of accuracy out of them.............. different brands of powder, granulations, patching material, diameters of ball, I mean really "A.R." stuff. I even went so far as to sift my powder, that I used in matches, through a series of sieves of different mesh, to get very uniform granule size. It all helped. There was a big difference, as you pointed out, in the velocities between different powders, and sometimes, the standard deviation, too. I relegated Elephant to my smoothbore shooting (burned so dirty), and used Goex for 90% of the competition. Toward the end of my competing it seemed that Wano was coming on strong as a very good, consistent and clean burning powder. Never shot a load of black powder substitute in my life. Built a "buffalo rifle" once for X-stick matches. 42" Douglas XX barrel, 1 1/8" across the flats, weighed in at 13.98#. I mounted a Lyman 25X LWBR scope on it to test loads. When I was finished with it I had that gal shooting sub-inch, 5 shot, 100 yd. groups. I was amazed that a patched roundball could achieve this. One has to be very finicky about the loading procedure and the shooting technique, to get that to happen, tho'. My best target with it is a 5/8", 5 shot group at 100 yds. Never got it to do quite that good after removing the scope and going to the irons. Wonder why?

Stan

[kgb]

Stan, I recall the energy from one of the Elephant powder loads calculating out to roughly that of a .38 Special and when I mentioned that on a muzzleloader forum the flames started about how just how effective a roundball really is. Well, I guess if you shot a deer in the lungs with a .38 he'd die, too.

Accuracy really showed up for me when I picked up the Dutch Shoultz papers. One trip to the fabric store plus a supply of ballistol and two trips to the range gave me what my flintlock wanted. Same fabric and ballistol/water ratio worked for the caplock, and for that matter with two different barrels (one's a shorty). Hadn't thought patch material was so critical...just like anything else if you dig deep enough you find some of the secrets.

Kirk

[Dalgo]

Although not a very good picture, here are 3 flintlocks that I have. The first is an upper eastern Tenn mountain rifle (circa 1810) in .36 cal. The midde one is a Penn. Lancaster, after Isaac Haines, Golden Age (circa 1775) in .50 cal. Both by Nate McKenzie. The lower one, is an English game gun, smooth rifle (circa 1750), in .54 / 28 ga. by Danny Caywood. I'll try to do them justice with better pics sometime.

Dalgo