Questions about original SW finishes

[vince174]

Hi all. I'm new to the forum as a member but have been reading posts for awhile. After restoring several SxS as a personal hobby, I received my first SW today. The serial number is 122xxx which looks like it dates to 1929. All the numbers match, the barrels are uncut and there's no damage to the wood. I plan on refinishing the wood (it has a gritty feel to it-maybe old varnish), re-rust bluing the barrels, nitre blue the trigger guard and triggers, instal a new butt pad/plate, and maybe re-case color the receiver. I do all the work myself with the exception of the CCH. I know my restorations may not be perfect, but I enjoy working on these old guns and getting them to back to as near original condition as possible.

I have a couple questions about the original finish of a SW from this era that I'm hoping someone could answer. I searched through past posts as much as possible before posting.

1) Would the most likely recoil pad/butt plate that came with this gun be one of the plain hard rubber/plastic types ?
2) In 1929, what would the most common recoil pad that could of been ordered for a SW and where to buy a re-pro now ? CSMC I'm guessing.
3) Was the case color on this era SW done with the cynaide process or bone/charcoal. If cynaide, who does this type of work to approxiamte Fox colors ?
4) Wood finish. I've seen alot of posts with people doing everything from BLO and tung oil to Tru-Oil. Is there one method that would duplicate as close as possible the original 1929 SW wood finish ?

Thanks in advance to anyone that answers. If there's any other points I may have missed, please let me know. Looking forward to learning alot and working on my SW.

Vince

[Researcher]

1. The butt plate would be the plain serrated pate with the rings around the screw holes.


These butt plates are 1910, 1922, 1929, 1936 and 1938.

2. The most common recoil pad used by the factory for Fox guns from the WW-I time frame to the end was the Jostam Anti-Flinch and as yet there is no repro being made.



3. Cynaide

4. I'll leave for someone else.

[vince174]

Thanks for the reply, it was very helpful. Do you know if anyone is able to mimic the FOX cynaide colors or do most who choose to have their SW re-cased/colored go with bone and charcoal ? I have used John Gillette several times and plan on giving him a call. Thanks again for your reply.

Vince

[Stan Hillis]

vince174,

I called and talked to a gunsmith yesterday that does cyanide case colors, and bone/wood charcoal pack casing. I wanted to feel him out a bit about Chromox receivers. He talked like he had done lots of them, with good results. Seemed to be a very knowledgeable and thorough fellow. I may give him a try on an A grade receiver, before getting my BE done. I cannot vouch for his results yet, but just supply this as information only.

R.G.S. Restorations, Inc. (I spoke with Paul. I think he is Ron's son). 920-688-2980 http://www.ronsgunshop.com

When you bring the site up click on "Finishes" and some B & W photos will come up beside different finishes. Put your cursor on the picture of the Lefever beside the Cyanide Case Color box and it will pop up a color pic of it, showing typical cyanide color results.

Stan

[jmc]

Vince,

I don't believe Sterlingworth (perhaps even some of the graded Fox's) had nitre blued triggers. I think they were essentially left 'in the white'. It's common however, to se refinished guns with blueD triggers. Someone may come by and correct me here... On the stock finish, I would guess at that time it was a proprietary finish of BLO base with shellac on top. Most don't try to reproduce this exactly.

jmc

[MARSHFELLOW]

JMC,

good catch on the blued triggers. They should be left in the white. Blued triggers stick out like a sore thumb.

tjw

[jmc]

Marsh- happens to be fresh in my mind... Got a Fox back after a long saga of "restoration" and it came back with its triggers polished to a mirror finish. Almost look chromed. Stil have not figured out how to get them back right. Hit them with very fine steel wool and didn't do a thing.

[vince174]

Thanks for all the information. I usually nitre blue triggers so thanks for pointing out the Fox triggers were polished/in the white. As to the cynaide cc, I will call RGS. I've seen his site before and completely forgot about it. Has anyone seen any of the threads where people have brought out faded cc by using cold blue ? I may give that a try as my receiver has about 75-80 % good colors, but completely gone on the underside of the frame and the front part of the trigger plate. I suppose the worse that could happen is it looks bad and then I'm back to having it re-colored.

I think you all have answered all my questions. If anyone else has anything to add I'd appreciate it. Thanks again.

Vince

[vince174]

Marsh- happens to be fresh in my mind... Got a Fox back after a long saga of "restoration" and it came back with its triggers polished to a mirror finish. Almost look chromed. Stil have not figured out how to get them back right. Hit them with very fine steel wool and didn't do a thing.

What about trying a small wire brush on a dremel tool ? That usually leaves a polished finish without making metal look like chrome.

Vince

[vince174]

I asked a question about if anyone here has heard of a method where you use cold blue to refresh/restore cc. I guess I have littel patience so I decided to give it a try on the front part of my trigger plate. I used Brownells Oxpho Blue and cotton swabs. I cleaned the metal with acetone and applied some of the Oxpho Blue to it. Surprisingly, some fo the color came back even where there was none. It was still a little faint so I heated the part up just a little with a propane torch. I then swabbed on a little more of the Oxpho Blue and the colors really came back. I did this maybe 3 or 4 times. I then rinsed the part with water and coated it in oil. Now I am in no way saying that this is a proper "restoration" of case colors and I am certainly no expert in the case color process, but in some ways I'd say this worked. The colors look a little better in person then these pics. In person the blues are better. In the threads that I've read on this process, someone suggested that when the metal is originally case hardened, perhaps by any means (cynaide, bone and charcoal) and when over the years the colors wear off, what is happening is that the "color" is just wearing off and whatever microscopic changes that originally occurred to the metal is still there. Using the cold blue, or in this case Oxpho Blue just brings those colors/changes in the metal back out ? Thoughts ??

I have attached a couple before and after pics. I'd love to know what you guys think.

[jmc]

Thanks Vince. May give that a try or go to a fine wet sand. As for your colors, you definitely got something back. I have a Sterlingworth with what I would call 80% original colors remaining and although muted, will leave them and enjoy what is left however am intrigued by your experiment!

[mike campbell]

The majority of Sterlingworths, like most low-cost, mass produced American guns and furniture of the 1920's/30's were finished with lacquer; predominantly DuPont "Duco." I don't have an example handy, but I've seen "Duco" finish in a lot of firearms ad copy of the era. Examine a SW you reasonably think to have the original factory finish and you'll find it flaking off, never having penetrated the wood as is typical of synthetic topcoats (lacquer, polyurethane, epoxy). Furthermore, sand it a bit and you'll get yellow dust... a failing of early nitrocellulose lacquers was their tendency to yellow with age.

[vince174]

Hi Mike. Thanks for the info. I've heard it mentioned that the factory used this Duco product. I will probably do a Tru-Oil finish on mine. This is my first SW. Ive got a couple Elsies and a couple Ithacas. When i got the Sw, the finsih was real gritty-like someone had put a heavy coat of varnish on it and it clumped up or something like that. Not really sure how to desrcibe it. However, I stripped the finish off and the wood underneath is just about perfect. Thanks again for responding.

[mike campbell]

FWIW, about the most appropriate refinish I've seen for Sterlingworth wood is done by member Jim Kline...jkline356.

I'm going out on a limb and I hope he doesn't mind, but if you send him a PM, maybe Jim will share his technique with you.

[vince174]

thanks Mike. I'll try contacting him.