barrels fast to frame....

[robt. harris]

Was approached the other day at my shooting club by a fellow whose barrels would not separate from the frame on a 20 ga. Sterlingworth. With snap-on forend removed, the barrels will hinge downward as they should....but not shift slightly rearward as normal to remove them. I'm no 'smith', but my suspicion is that a cocking slide dysfunction is the culprit. Tried carefully pushing on the nose of the slide (with barrels dropped downward) with wooden dowel with no movement achieved. The cocking slide's assembly screw can be reached with the correct driver with the barrels in a downward position, and am presently contemplating if removal of that screw and thus slide would allow the barrels to come off to at least see where the problem lies.

Any similar experiences out there, and more importantly.....remedies to disassemble?

I only have two Foxes of my own and have never had the least bit of trouble in this regard.

'Thanks' for whatever you guys might have to offer.

Rob

[bbman3]

Rob,Tell owner i will give him $300 for the gun! Sounds like could be something going on with the cocking slide,maybe stuck too far back to clear slot cut for barrels.If you can get screw loose that holds slide in place might let barrels come out.Never had that problem.Is extractor moving out properly? Bobby

[robt. harris]

'Thanks' for the response, Bobby. Should have stated that this is an ejector Sterlingworth in 20 ga. which might require you to ante up an additional $50 to the owner. But more seriously, the ejectors still work/travel as they should at this point....the gun is wholly functional.....it's only that the barrel group cannot be separated from the frame upon disassembly.

I'll have access to the gun within the next day or two once I have a definite plan of attack. I do have a well-fitting driver for the cocking slide screw and may try our slide removal idea if nothing better surfaces. Have always been a big fan of "make haste slowly" when it comes to these things, and will let you know what develops.

Thanks again for your thoughts,


rob

[Scott]

I have seen this problem in the past. I made a small hook from a strong piece of wire and was able to hook the cocking slide and pull it back to release the barrels. If you have a fox gun that you can disassemble you can see how this would work. I made my hook from an old choke cable, I bent the end to 90 degrees and then cut it to about 1/16" long. Then remove the forend from the gun. you will be able to sneak the hook in and pull the cocking slide toward the front of the gun.
After you get the barrels free, remove the cocking slide from the barrels and clean it out.
If this fails you will have to remove the trigger plate and push the cocking slide from the front.
Good Luck!

[robt. harris]

'Thanks' Scott,

Appreciate your input, which all makes sense. Will let you fellows know how it works out - just as soon as I do.

All Best,

rob

[robt. harris]

Well, problem solved although it turned out to be a real ‘hair-puller’ in the end. I should warn you that there might be more technical discussion with this one than some of you’d like, so you can either bail…. or read on and possibly save yourself a nasty repair job. (You'll find a schematic handy)

As mentioned, the cocking slide being stuck in a rearward position was the culprit, which kept the barrels from being removed from the frame. Tried the wire hook suggestion as Scott described……no budge. Then tried removing the cocking slide retaining screw and spring, which I easily did with a thin-shafted driver. Not the answer, as the slide would still not move in either direction. Next removed the triggerplate and applied steady pressure on rear edge of slide to get it forward…..no movement. That’s when it dawned on me that the small, vertical set screw that secures the extractor/rod to the barrel group had somehow backed out and was keeping the slide from going forward as it should. The only time this set screw can back out is when the gun is either fully assembled... or when the barrels are off the frame AND the forend assembly is attached to the barrels (IOW, the cocking slide is in its rearward position). And I’m betting that it happens when the gun is fully assembled where a combination of shooting vibration and that of opening and closing the gun can cause it to ‘walk-out’ of its threads over much time. The set screw in this gun turned out to be the original factory one, but had little to no turning resistance at all in its oily threadway.

About this time, the gun’s owner showed up and he agreed that we’d have to physically drive the cocking slide forward if we were ever to get the barrels off the frame. Using a long-shafted screwdriver with a wide blade to match the back of the cocking slide (padded blade w/ duct tape on edge) we were able to forceably drive the cocking slide forward the small distance needed to remove the barrels. The ‘force’ part, as expected, was distorting both the slightly elevated set screw and the small forward projection on the cocking slide that captures its tensioning spring (again, a schematic helps). They weren’t so badly damaged in our case that we could not salvage them …..but had the set screw backed out completely, we would have sheared off the small, round projection on the front of the cocking slide out of necessity.

With about the sixth or seventh harsh hammer blow, I’m thinking there’s got to be a preventative solution for all this. Later decided that if one has an extractor set screw that turns in and out with little to no resistance, there might be much merit in using a low-strength Loc-Tite product (like purple or blue) to hold it in place. The downside to this is that removing the extractor or ejectors for a more thorough cleaning would require breaking the Loc-Tite bond each time. However, turning the set screw in to ‘full-stop’ is not the answer as it then totally pins the extractor rod to where there is no fore-aft function of the extractor.

Backing it off a quarter-to-half turn is where you want to be…..but if the set screw then moves too readily in its threadway….you’ve the potential to face what we did yesterday, and it ain’t no fun!!

Last evening, I checked the only two Foxes I now have. Both are 12 ga, (a CE & AE) and both get shot routinely. Disassembled their cocking slide mechanisms and found that one extractor set screw has enough natural turning resistance to where I would NOT need Loc-Tite, and the other …..turns so readily with a little, dinky sewing machine screwdriver that over time the same problem might occur. Ideally, a guy would have a box of thirty or forty new Fox factory extractor set screws lying around, and try them one-by-one until he finds one that threads in snugly with some resistance.…..short of that, I will go to the trouble/inconveninece of Loc-Tite-ing them in IF they appear too loose.

Hope you find this blather of some use…..assuming any of you are still reading.

All Best,

rob

P.S For Scott, Incredible coincidence, but you and I signed up with the Fox Collector's board within about an hour of each other back on Jan 6th of 2007. go figure....

P.P.S. Bobby, I'm still on the hunt for any Fox smallbore for you!!

[Scott]

Rob,
Well Done!!! I will check mine and use the low grade locktite on them.
Thanks!

[MARSHFELLOW]

very interesting indeed.

tjw

[jolly bill]

Rob,

Thanks for taking the time to pass on all that useful and detailed info.

It sure could save someone a lot of grief to discover the problem before it's a problem.

Jolly

[DSizemore]

Rob.....I certainly read it and found it very interesting. Thanks.

[robt. harris]

This has still been on my mind to where I may have a better solution to the low strength Loc-Tite fix. What if a guy were to pack a heavy grease right atop the extractor set-screw hole to a level that doesn't affect the cocking slide's travel. That way, when infrequently having to remove the set screw and extractor for a more thorough cleaning of the whole works it would be even less troublesome to remove. Q-tip and solvent would be able to remove such a grease, I'd think, even after having sat for a long time and wouldn't be gunking up the threads as much as Loc-Tite or some varnish. Easier to put the grease packing back in, and can't see a set-screw walking back in that sticky medium either.

Just a thought....

rob