Fox book serial # 17060

[cook-winston]

The Fox book says that Ansley fox shot his gun serial #17060 DE fox in the records this is an A grade not built for him I have serial # 17090 and is exactly like the gun described in the Book. Do you think the 6 and 9 could have been confused..???

[fox-admin]

What page number is the reference?? I assume the Fox book you mean is McIntosh A.H. Fox "The Finest Gun in the World"

[Silvers]

Mr. Cook, cqn you possibly take a good macro pic of that safetyless tang and post it or have it posted? Just wondering, does the card copy you requested specify "no safety"? I know you've had pics posted here by others, but if you can do that macro pic of the rear tang I will be happy to do it for you. If so, send pic to me at silvers897@yahoo.com

Frank

[cook-winston]

I will get some pictures. I am in South Texas hunting hogs I will get you reference pages when I get back

[eightbore]

I think the mystery is solved. Now to find out where the author or researcher got his information.

[fox-admin]

I found the reference page 126--"The DE Grade 12-bore No. 17060 may also have been part of the Grand American display. It was ordered with two sets of barrels---one set thirty inches with extra-full chokes-------(goes on to list the guns specs) -------The work-order card shows instructions to select extra-fine wood and to deliver the gun to AH Fox. There is no delivery date, but if the gun was built in standard sequence, the number would date to 1911. It's unlikely that a shooter placed the order--in that event, the card would show more detail specs for trigger pulls and such---so either it was meant for display or was a gun that Ansley Fox intended giving to someone as a gift."

I would have to say the reference to 17060 is a mistake and it should be 17090. Craig

[eightbore]

Craig, when did Ansley actually leave the company? I can find no evidence that he shot for money with Fox shotguns, certainly not as late as 1911. Unfortunately, the gun is starting to look like a display gun, not the personal gun of Ansley H. Fox. Assuming it is a display gun, it has value beyond its grade and condition.

[fox-admin]

Bill: I believe he left in late 1911. But I am just restating facts from Headrick and McIntosh writings.
You would think if Ansley shot competitively with a Fox after 1906 some records would remain in the sporting press of the era.
If anyone would know if Ansley shot competitively with a Fox it would be you, since you have research competitive shooter extensively. Another DE is known close in serial number to this gun that states For AH Fox.
So who knows, but as you say it will still bring a premium over most early style DE's of equal condition in my opinion. Craig

[Silvers]

Mr. Cook sent me this pic of the safetyless area. It's the same as one posted previously on the original thread, but a little larger. Pic is only 640 x 480 size and this is the best I can do. I was hoping to see a macro of the normal safety button area on the tang, to see if was solid - or was machined through, plugged and engraved over the plug.



Regarding Ansley shooting competitively after 1906, last winter I did a once through of my collection of American Fields which had a BIG competition section in each issue (every two weeks). And I didn't find Ansley listed by name at any major shoot through mid 1913. Of course he could have shot using a pseudonym as some shooters did. Frank

[eightbore]

Good point, Frank. The nom de fusil was popular at the time. Maybe we can locate him in some Grand American shooter lists.

[Silvers]

More pics of the top frame tang sent by Mr. Cook. I expanded one of them (last pic). The engraving in the normal safety button area is pretty deep and could have been layed out to cover the side edges and most of the front and back ones on a plug. But the tang does look solid; it certainly doesn't have a visable plug which, if present, might be at least partially seen on the high sections of the cross axis. I'm thinking the only way to tell which way this DE was done is to disassemble and look at the bottom of the tang. Not that anyone is likely to do that. Frank

[ASavageFox]

it would be interesting to know what the card for 17090 says...

[cook-winston]

17090 says RUSH DE 30in and 28in select extra fine stock no safety lyman sight silvers pad For A.H. Fox