CSMC Fox

[2lo8s]

What is the conventional wisdom regarding the CSMC Fox guns.
They sure are beautiful. Anyone shooting one?
Are they sound and mechanically stout?
Do the finishes hold up?
What are their strengths? Any weaknesses?
Thank you.

[fox-admin]

I bought a 20ga XE two barrel set in 1998. It has been a great gun and it has not sat in the closet. I have taken it to Argentina three times and many upland trips out west plus a couple of days per year grouse hunting in NY and numerous preserve outings. It has seen many miles and many boxes of ammo. It has been back to CSMC once to have the front trigger pull adjusted. That's it. The CC is mostly gone from the front of the trigger plate and it has the normal dents and dings of a hunting gun. I would say the CC wears just like the vintage examples. Mine was engraved by Richard Roy. From my experience they are lovely, hardy guns built just as well as the originals.

[nca225]

A CSMC Fox CE 16 Ga with 26" barrels coming in at 5.75 lbs is on my bucket list.

[DSizemore]

That's very informative Craig. I just know of a couple other guys who have put theirs through that kind of use and they have all said the same thing.......no problems. We all know they're beautiful guns, but it's nice hear of one actually being used like yours. I've never been, but from what I've been told, an Argentina trip is probably the ultimate field test for any gun. Thanks for sharing.

[fox-admin]

Oh I forgot an ejector snapped in Argentina but the gun still functioned (the shells they had us use burned VERY dirty) CSMC fixed and sent back to me in less than two weeks. The original owner has a life time warranty on the gun. I fell on the gun woodcock hunting and put a gouge in the 26"bbls but no dent.
I really like CSMC products, I also have a 32" RBL 12 ga that is my modern Super Fox. I use it on rainy days and as a travel gun. I didn't care for the A-10 standard gun, but a Inverness with 30"bbls and pistol grip stock is in my future. I think it is a very handsome gun made in the USA.

[Flatlander Tom]

I know of one for sale I wll look up the info for and send you a message.
Tom

[terc]

All good things eventually end. If CSMC decides to quit making the Fox guns, what do you think will happen to the prices of the guns that are already out there?
terc

[eightbore]

The prices of used CSMC Foxes is what the market will bear and they don't sell the day they are offered. If Tony quit building them, the value would rise very slowly, as it does now.

[2lo8s]

Too bad they used such plain wood.

[vaturkey]

Too bad they used such plain wood.

Well, not every Fox can have wood like a Parker.

PS. That would look great on any gun ever made. Looks like wonderful English to me.

[kgb]

And checkered like an "X", too? That's the grade I'll hopefully order from CSMC.

The guns seem to have a price a bit under new, above original cost if old enough maybe. The 20ga X at Griffin & Howe was offered at the Fall Julia's auction and bid to 11k when it was projected for a range from 12k and up. Maybe it would have sold at 12k (add in buyer's premium of course) and now looks like G&H sold it when they "reduced to $15,5000, sale pending". New one would start at 17k. Robin Hollow Outfitters has a 20ga X beauty at 16k, it was built in 2001 so it's got to be above original cost....again depends on if it sells and for how much.

If I could find a used X at around 14k I'd overlook some things that it might have or lack that don't fit my ideal, rather than ordering new. They didn't make too many originals, seems we ought to be ordering new ones so the future is populated with more than it otherwise would be. Selfless stuff like that.

Are 16ga A grades really worth 5k or 6k? I can't believe they are and wouldn't spend that but they've landed in that asking price range.

[Silvers]

IMO, 6k for a 16 A grade is high at present for an honest original gun with hunting wear, but a really nice pistol grip might stretch to that, and a straight gripper would. All these smallbore/graded Foxes were made in limited numbers, many have been goofed with, and others are in collections never to be seen in the fields or woods again at least while the present owner has them. So.... those few nice Fox graded smallbores that do reach the market are not only asking a premium price, they're getting same. Many of these change hands behind the scenes, and you'll rarely see them on the internet sale sites. There's nothing like being out with an old Fox smallbore..... except for things like jet contrails above, and your fluorescent orange, you can ~ roll the calendar back a generation or two. And especially if you have vintage or even RST papers in the gun. Not taking anything away from the excellent CSMC product, there's just no comparison. Again, all this is just my opinion. Silvers

[kgb]

Silvers, if an A-grade is truly worth the prices asked, then maybe the CSMC Foxes are priced right. As for durability, etc. as asked by 2lo, from what I've read the guns are solid and any problems quickly fixed by the company. Even if you're not the original purchaser. From the CSMC Customer Testimonials page:
Just a note of gratitude on the stellar customer service I have received.

While at the Southern Side X Side Fall Shoot a few months ago, I found a beautiful, slightly used C.S.M.C. Fox CE grade in 20 bore, that I just couldn't live without. At this shoot I had the privilege to meet Lou, talk guns and share a few cigars. Since the shoot I have run 500 rounds through the gun every week. I experienced a few minor issues i.e. difficulty in breakdown, forearm loosening and top lever returning to close. I discussed this with Lou, he asked that I ship it to you. This was just before Christmas, and I was expecting a 6mo. turnaround ... like all of my other guns take for service! I was pleasantly surprised to have the gun back in my hand yesterday 5-January. The gun is as good as new, and I couldn't be more pleased. Soon I will be stepping up to purchase another bespoke shotgun, and I assure you that it will be from C.S.M.C.!
Bravo, and have a profitable New Year.
Warm Regards,
Kevin R. Foxwell

[fox-admin]

I bought my 20ga XE CSMC in 1998 brand new. I have a couple decent vintage Foxes which I like very much but sometimes I just like to buy new stuff.
If you are trying to justify the cost/price and make a comparison to a vintage Fox forget it, they are apples and oranges . It's like trying to compare a Parker repro to an original, or a ICD to an Ithaca.
I like the CSMC Fox for what it is, I got a big kick out ordering a new Fox just like many sportsman did 90 years ago.
In terms of long run value appreciation nothing will approach near mint high grade original condition Foxes.
Second would be original condition untouched examples and graded small bores with minor condition issues.
Third would be CSMC Foxes
And way back will be the messed with guns.
It won't be to many more years before Tony has made Foxes longer than they were made in Philadelphia, think about that.
Here are a few pictures of my 1998 XE. I paid $11k, it's depreciated a lot less than my Toyota!

[kgb]

I like the CSMC Fox for what it is, I got a big kick out ordering a new Fox just like many sportsman did 90 years ago.

Here are a few pictures of my 1998 XE. I paid $11k, it's depreciated a lot less than my Toyota!

I think that's a big part of the attraction to me....order as you'd like one instead of hoping for the best in searching out the used gun market. Likewise, it's real easy to add up the depreciation of vehicles over the years and come up with at least the base price of an XE!