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I have posted about his previously, and below is the original text. I have attached some images. As I handle this gun more, it's growing on me, it's in mighty fine condition. ANY help is appreciated! Case colors great and minty, is it a diamond in the rough? Will likely be a field gun and used hard, but need to know the chokes.
I have a 99% condition new to me Savage Fox "Series H" 20 gauge with 28" barrels and a serial number stamped on the side of the receiver beginning with the letter "D". I would like to know the chokes and date of manufacture if possible. I bought this on a "whim" online and it has a new, fairly nice straight english stock and splinter fore-end. If this gun was fired it was very minimal, or it was refinished, as the barrels are flawless and black. In any event, I shoot a few different O/U and this is my first SxS and I was looking for a "field" gun which I could bang around with for grouse and perhaps pheasant. I have very little experience (like none) with SxS's and thought I could get in "cheap". Well, she's very utilitarian to say the least, and swings about like a baseball bat. Tip heavy for sure. I've swung a few "real" AH Fox's in the past...well, you get the picture. Not sure if I'll keep it or what, but looking for information so if I part ways I have a better understanding of what I'm selling. Does anyone else keep buying stuff they don't have the time to shoot!!
Normally the Fox Model B 20-gauges with 28-inch barrels were catalogued as being choked modified and full. You have the gun in your hands, we don't. You are the one who could shoot patterns, draw 30-inch circles and count pellet hits to see what it is choked, we can't. Shooting patterns and counting pellet hits is the only way to know what a gun is choked. Measuring with a bore mic gives an indication, while sticking one of those brass plugs in the end of the barrel tells you nothing. Pellets on the paper is the only truth. To me shooting patterns and counting pellet hits is one of lifes most boring activities.
Researcher wrote:Normally the Fox Model B 20-gauges with 28-inch barrels were catalogued as being choked modified and full. You have the gun in your hands, we don't. You are the one who could shoot patterns, draw 30-inch circles and count pellet hits to see what it is choked, we can't. Shooting patterns and counting pellet hits is the only way to know what a gun is choked. Measuring with a bore mic gives an indication, while sticking one of those brass plugs in the end of the barrel tells you nothing. Pellets on the paper is the only truth. To me shooting patterns and counting pellet hits is one of lifes most boring activities.
Researcher, thanks for the useless post I was hoping to avoid that and see if I could get the chokes from the serial number. Counting pellets is right up there with plucking feathers. Looks like it's a fine gun but the history of these models are horrid. It's was restocked by the Orvis Custom shop for the original owner some years back..but I have no idea how many. Thanks.
I'm always amazed at the condition of the case colors on Fox B's and Stevens 311's. I once had a 20g 311A that was almost perfect color-wise. Did the owners really baby those guns or was the process more robust? I don't know. Your top lever looks well left of center. Even if your gun still locks up tight, you should still think about taking it to a competent gunsmith for a fix especially if your going to "shoot it hard". I don't think it's a difficult job.
Yeah, those Savage Fox's were fenceposts, but they swing like London Bests compared to some Brownings I have.
Thanks Spyder. Fencepost about sums it up, but it's growing on me. Tip heavy but better than my Japanese Citori 20g Lightning. The Citori is dear to my heart since it was my first "real gun" after graduating and getting a job, but it's rather dead in my hands. This Fox, if choked tighter than I like, might make a dandy pheasant gun. I will look into that top lever, not sure what "left of center" means in terms of wear or use. Thanks.
I have the single trigger, ejector version BSE-H. It has quite a piece of lumber for a forend, so I can imagine why the previous owner went with a new stock set. Mine looks like it rolled out of the factory yesterday so I hear you about the condition some of these are in. I think full/modified was pretty much the order of the day for these guns. They did not even bother to mark them. With your gun receiving all the extra attention it did there is no way to know what the chokes are unless you measure them or pattern them. It really is not a big deal to pattern one. Put two, 30 inch circles on a piece of paper/cardboard/patterning board and measure off 35 yards. Shoot each barrel and count up the pellets at your leisure. Assuming the point of aim is on you should be good to go. If you can't get out to do that their's not much anyone here can help you with.
In general. these things are clunky tomato stakes that make great rainy day guns for your kids. They were mass produced cheaply to meet a certain price point. That being said, I have more than one and do use them on occasion but they do not even come close to the qualiity of the last of the Savage/Fox Sterlingworths. I hope I do not come off too harsh, but this is a Fox collectors forum and nobody considers these guns Foxes. They just happen to be the last of a line made by Savage. Kind of like a Mustang II compared to a Shelby.
"Somehow, the sound of a shotgun tends to cheer one up" -- Robert Ruark
Hi Romac, I knew full well what I got and what it is, intended and purchased as a rainy day gun. I couldn't pass this one up. Remember, I live in Upstate NY, half our weather is rain, the other half...sucks. Also, it will be my boys gun in a couple years, and trust me, he will bang it up good. And the Shelby - Mustang II analogy is pertinent, having driven both but only owned the former - luckily. Would not dare take a Mustang II around Watkins Glen at speed like I have the Shelby's so I know where you come from. I handled a high grade Fox at Cabelas last year, it was magical. And about $20,000 over my budget.
Laminarman, I'm glad you were not put off by what I wrote late last night. Reading it this morning after a cup of coffee, I realized that I probably could have said the same thing without coming off like a cad. I use them too, I even have the Savage/Valmet 333 o/u to play with. It's not a Rizzini but it shoots lights out.
"Somehow, the sound of a shotgun tends to cheer one up" -- Robert Ruark
ROMAC wrote:Laminarman, I'm glad you were not put off by what I wrote late last night. Reading it this morning after a cup of coffee, I realized that I probably could have said the same thing without coming off like a cad. I use them too, I even have the Savage/Valmet 333 o/u to play with. It's not a Rizzini but it shoots lights out.
Not put off at all Romac! I usually research what I buy pretty intensely, and this is my first SxS. I have mostly O/U's and only lately wanted to try a SxS and figured this a cheap way "in". Also, I prefer English stocks so this fits the bill. Have to see how she patterns and then I'll take her to a preserve for a morning on pheasants. Thanks for the info. I was at Kittery Trading Post in Maine a few months back, and they had a TON of Sterlingworths up there, almost all 12 gauge, and almost all very loose. The only 20 I saw that was tight, nice and in fairly decent shape was overpriced I thought, but I'm still shopping for that Sterlingworth "bargain". Finding that its' a tough task.
FWIW, you have almost a rare Savage/Fox model B, series H. They made very few of those with the English stock and splinter forend. Chances are, it will shoot for a looong time with the lever to the left.
2X2 wrote:FWIW, you have almost a rare Savage/Fox model B, series H. They made very few of those with the English stock and splinter forend. Chances are, it will shoot for a looong time with the lever to the left.
Really...the last owner bought it for a deal only to make a few bucks (he's a dealer), but said the prior owner said it was restocked by Orvis's gunshop and had not been fired. Looking at the quality of wood, I wouldn't think Orvis would do this. It's a pedestrian piece of wood, and the finish is just OK, checkering is very clean however.
If anyone would know it wasn't catalogued, it would be Researcher.
I knew about the Quails Fargo from one of REsearcher's post sometime back, but sometimes, makers make a special gun for a company and have their own version. For instance, Ithaca, under, the Western Arms branch made a version of their longrange called The Longrange Double Deluxe that was nicer than the Western Arms LR. It had checkering and some had ejectors. My book says it was USUALLY made exclusively for Westernfield, but I have never seen one under either name. Using the word, 'usually', I assume some were sold under Western Arms. Maybe Researcher has some old Western Arms catalogues.
It's certainly possible Orvis restocked it, but how much would that have cost. The checkering pattern on the forearm isn't the same as a model B splinter. I have a 5100 Stevens that someone paid dearly for the fancy grade walnut restock and very well done checkering.
On the Ithaca built Western Arms Long Range Double, I've only seen the rudimentary checkering on the Western Field/Montgomery Ward version. My collection of old Ithaca paper is primarily oriented towards the Ithacas, and Ithaca only began including their Lefevers and their Western Arms guns in a single Dealers Quotations price list about 1933. In my Dealers Quotations for 1934 and 1935 they offer automatic ejectors on the Nitro Special ($10.90 extra retail) and the Long Range Double ($8.90 retail extra).
By 1936 the only gun offered with optional automatic ejectors is the Lefever A Grade Model 5.
Also, by 1936 Ithaca was putting a statement on their Dealers Quotations that they don't sell to mailorder houses under their names or trade names --
A statement to that affect remained at the bottom the covers of their Dealers Quotations up to WW-II --
I was hoping to avoid that and see if I could get the chokes from the serial number. Counting pellets is right up there with plucking feathers. Looks like it's a fine gun but the history of these models are horrid. It's was restocked by the Orvis Custom shop for the original owner some years back..but I have no idea how many. Thanks.
