Why won't the buttplate come off?

[murphyowner]

I have a late Utica 16 gauge (ser 373667)., and wanted to remove the buttplate....upon removing the screws, the buttplate is still stuck...big time...I even ran a knife around the perimeter as neatly as possible and it's not budging....finish looks original to me based on other pics I see online here. I wanted to remove it , just to put on a "slip on" pad to give a little extra length . ????
LOP is 14 1/4...If it's going to be real hard to remove, I'll touch up the area and leave it be.

[Twice Barrel]

Sounds as if the buttplate was put on with glue or put on when the varnish was still wet. You might try a little judicious application of heat using your wife's hair dryer but beyond that I think you are stuck (no pun intended) with what you got unless you want to risk major damage to buttplate and stock.

[murphyowner]

Thanks twicebarrel I'll see if the hairdryer heat does anything......I"ll post some pics, because I have a couple other questions....
that way you and others can see the finish to assess whether or not it's original...I have never run into any other shotguns where the buttplate was ever fastened at the factory. Anyone know for sure? I kinda doubt it...
thanks and any other input very welcome.
Terry

[murphyowner]

Well I got it....
after masking to leave just enough room to seep some gel water based stripper (Motsenbocker's Lift Off) at the seam and waiting 10 minutes for it to work...I was able to get an x-acto knife blade around the top and slowly the glue gave away. I continued separating where I could get a mini screw driver in there....added some more gel with a q tip and it finally gave way. It was glued on for sure.
I want to try the slip on pad without the buttplate and see if it lowers the poi a bit.I don't cram my head down, shoot pretty erect....and it seemed that when just touching the bottom of the pattern board target , the pattern was 90% over ... I guess ok if I was a trap shooter, but not the case....I just like to shoot vintage style low gun skeet and hunt birds...grouse and pheasants.
Which brings me to my next question...do you other owners typically open up the barrels, especially the left?? Mine is so tight I really have to let a target get out 45 yards plus to get the pattern to open up, and still when I hit a clay at that distance it really smashes it....so give me your opinions on what constrictions you like....if you don't mind.
I would prefer not to use spreaders.
And my final observation/thought....when I open my gun up to load it, there is a wee little bit of play side to side at the hook, barely perceptible, but I have owned enough doubles to detect it....When I close it , it's tight on face......should I be concerned with that little amount of play?
I will shoot light loads out of it, and for hunting, mostly 1 oz.
thanks in advance for any information...I enjoy learning about the fox guns, as this is the first one I have ever owned, and certainly appreciate its quality.
Terry

[fullchoke16]

Terry, Taking that butt plate off whilst you're adding a slip on isn't going to make any more change than if you had left it in place. The increase in LOP with the pad however may get you to the POI that you're looking for. I have a Utica gun similar to yours , choked tighter than a ducks butt, and I found that the best solution was another gun rather than messing with a perfectly good Sterlingworth. If the gun is on face, I wouldn't worry too much about shooting whatever I wanted out of it. The main concern would be recoil damage to an 80 yr. old piece of oiled walnut. The 16 ga. is at it's best with a 1 oz. load. One more thing to think about on the choke subject. Unless you're a really old guy, sooner or later you'll find good use for a tight choked gun. This is all opinion and should be taken as such. Good Shooting, Fred

[Stan Hillis]

murphyowner,

Since you asked for opinions........ I have several Foxes that have very tight chokes, some right AND left, but I've never opened the chokes on an original gun. The only Fox I ever opened is my A grade 32" barreled 3" chambered gun. It had been reblued, recased, and restocked (and possibly had the chambers lengthened to 3" as the letter mentions nothing of 3" chambers). It was choked x-full and x-full and I had them both opened to .025". I just couldn't bring myself to open them any more than that, and for now I'm glad I didn't. I love the tight modified on clays and ducks.

I shoot clays a lot with my tight choked guns. It will make a better shooter out of you if you stick with'em. There is absolutely nothing that builds my confidence like seeing a clay just turn into dust when hit with 1 oz. of 7 1/2s. The only drawback I can see to very tight chokes is for use on quail, woodcock or possibly grouse, at close range. But, I just use another gun with more open chokes for that. Pheasants are no problem for my tight choked guns. I'd advise leaving them as is, if the gun is all original. If it's been modified already very much, open'em up as you please.

JMHO, Stan

[murphyowner]

Thanks all for your responses...Fred, just as you said, with the slip on pad, it did not change the poi....still high...so I'm left with either changing my style, which isn't likely, or taking a rasp to the top of the stock, which I don't want to do, or trying what a friend advocated, by putting some washers at the top of the buttplate, and changing the pitch, bringing the nose down. If that does change POI and bring it down, I have good friend that can do an expert job of trimming a different angle to the butt and add a quality pad.
I'll try it Wed. at the range, and see if that lowers the POI with my normal head position. If that does not work, I'll list the gun, as I appreciate its inherent quality and hesitate to alter the original design much.....I am kind of hesitant to alter it since it appears to be a good honest original gun.
I'll let you know...and thanks for your helpful insights.
Terry

[Twice Barrel]

Terry you do have at least one more option which will not cost too much and will preserve the originality of the factory stock. That option is to have a gun fitting by a reputable fitter and have a replacement stock meeting those dimensions fitted to your gun. Since that will be a "Shooter" configuration you can get by with plain wood and a True Oil finish which I'm sure you can do yourself. If I had to hazard a guess at cost it will probably be $200.00 - $250.00 for the fitting (cost can be distributed between all of your guns), $80.00 - $120.00 for a turned blank and $150.00 - $200.00 for a rough fitting to the action with you doing the final shaping, sanding and finishing.

Ain't necessarily cheap but you will be able to recover most of your cost should you decide to trade or sell the gun later.

Another option is to have the gun fitted to you and then have the stock bent to meet your requirements.