Dogholes, apples and a Fox, paper shells added

[Silvers]

Two of us got out bird hunting today; it's the first time this season I wasn’t solo. Back up to the mountains. It was pretty chilly when we drove on top, 31 degrees and the constant wind didn’t help. We stopped at the cabin to get a fire going for lunch. Now, if this were January it would feel pretty good. But a little too cold for November 1. Dennie had a 20 gauge Browning over/under and I took my 12 gauge Sterlingworth Brush gun.

Several members have told me they enjoy my hunt pics, so I thought I’d post a few more this time. Easy to carry my camera in the game pouch.

You can still find old coal mines here from the late 1880’s. Old timers called smaller ones "dogholes" and I had my Doghole cover in mind for the morning hunt. I haven't been there yet this season. Too far to go back in if I'm alone. It's a pretty good stretch of smallish beech trees bordered by a hemlock swamp, starts about ½ mile off the main road and goes back in. Grouse are usually there when we have beechnuts. This isn't a good beechnut year, but there are some here and there, and it was worth a try.

There are three dogholes on the way in. Two are still open. Entrance slopes are washed in but you'll get the idea. Imagine going to work in one of these.






We walked up on about 15 turkeys while on the mine road, birds of the year. Here’s part of the flock. I count 9. Turkey season doesn’t open until Saturday.




Also walked up on this guy. A long spiker that was tearing up some brush; he didn’t see me until I had the camera out.




We raised three birds but they flushed way out, most of the leaves are gone. The wind probably made them nervous too. Each of us got one shot but both birds flew off. We came out and went for lunch and to warm up, then hunted another place called the "Well". Nice cover in a timbered off area, but no birds there. Next we went to a more sheltered area in the valley along the old RR line where there's a bunch of old foundations and ancient apple trees. I call it "Station". See where deer have been standing, picking and munching on apples. There were still some leaves on the trees, compare with the earlier pics taken on top of the mountain.






We raised two birds there in the apples and got one of them. Bird was flushed by Dennie and it was a crossing shot at about 30 yards.

All together, five flushes in about 5 hours. The one bird today was a bonus. It would have been a good day even if we didn't get anything.

Anyone else having luck with your Fox? Silvers

[mike campbell]

Frank,
If that had been my photo essay, I would have had 6 flushes....one each time I was busy taking a pic.

I hunted Fort Drum for 2 days a couple weeks ago. While in one covert my partner reminded me it was the spot where I kneeld to tie my bootlace and a bird flushed. He likes the story because he made the shot! Now when nature calls while we're hunting I always yell "Cover me!"

This is the first season for my new Cocker pup and she has a couple grouse and a few woodcock to her credit. She has the potential to be my best companion ever. Birds were scarce and this is her first grouse taken on the last hunt of the trip.



My partner had already headed for home with his 2 Springers when I decided to make one last hunt in a particlularly dry & sandy area. I think that's important because, while he found zero ticks on his 2 dogs, I pulled 3 off myself and 26 off Pearl's head & neck. For 30 years I've never pulled a tick off a dog hunted in western NY, only when I've been east and/or north of Syracuse.

The gun is my 26" SW 20ga. It was my first Fox and the first I restocked. Over the past 20 years it's served me well and I can't honestly say I've had reason to regret the short barrels, except aesthetically. But now I'm in the process of restocking a 30" A grade and I expect it will be the gun to accompany Pearl and me on our outings in what I'm hoping will be a good decade to come.

[mc15426378]

Nice pictures guys. What loads did you use?

Mike

[Silvers]

MIke C, nice pic and pup! I wish you both well for that next decade.

Second Mike C (I should use your nickname... you know which one) .... for 12 gauge I use modern RST factory shells, or my low pressure handloads. I don't handload for 16 or 20 gauges so it's RST all the way. For grouse the open barrel is loaded with 8 shot, and I'll usually have a heavier load of 7.5's in the tighter barrel. Once in a while I'll shoot a vintage paper Peters Victor, Rem Shur Shot, etc.

[mike campbell]

Mike,

An integral part of the hobby for me is hunting with factory papers of 1950's vintage. I like stuffing 60-year-old shells in my 90-yr-old Foxes. I found the pre-WWII roll-crimped stuff to be unreliable, but I have to say the 40's & 50's stuff in excellent condition is as reliable as any that's a year old. It has to be....I wouldn't risk a misfire on a hard-earned flushing grouse. I get a chuckle when people wax nostalgic about purple 16's as though it's the only color....there have always been more red & green 16ga shells around than purple.

I have a soft spot for red papers and I have a lifetime supply in 20,16 &12. I use 1 ounce of #7.5 exclusively in my 20ga for grouse and woodcock.





My first Cocker, Kate had ACL surgery in her prime @ 6 yrs old and never fully recovered. I'd do it again...no choice really...but she's lost some good years doing what she loves best.

[mike campbell]

Once in a while I'll load up a vintage paper Peters Victor, Rem Shur Shot, etc.

Ha! ....another romantic. An advantage we chicken hunters have over our waterfowlin' brethren.

[Fin2Feather]

I get a chuckle when people wax nostalgic about purple 16's as though it's the only color....there have always been more red & green 16ga shells around than purple.

Me too, Mike; those green Remington Express shells with the yellow seals on the end will always be THE 16ga shells to me !

[Silvers]

An integral part of the hobby for me is hunting with factory papers of 1950's vintage. I like stuffing 60-year-old shells in my 90-yr-old Foxes. I found the pre-WWII roll-crimped stuff to be unreliable, but I have to say the 40's & 50's stuff in excellent condition is as reliable as any that's a year old. It has to be....I wouldn't risk a misfire on a hard-earned flushing grouse. I get a chuckle when people wax nostalgic about purple 16's as though it's the only color....there have always been more red & green 16ga shells around than purple.

I have a soft spot for red papers and I have a lifetime supply in 20,16 &12. I use 1 ounce of #7.5 exclusively in my 20ga for grouse and woodcock.

Thanks Mike for bringing up the paper shell thing.

I agree with Mike on using vintage papers to get a big time blast from the past. I like Peters brand, with Remington's second. I use them often for all kinds of small game including turkeys. Once winter sets in I'll be hunting for foxes and coyotes with a caller and with a blue Peters high brass in one or both barrels. I have a bobcat permit this year and I'm hoping to bag one with a Super Fox. The 410's go with my Winchester 42 pump gun for squirrels. Like Mike, I have quite a stash of old papers and will pick up anything that looks good while at gun shows. Often the vendors have the boxes wrapped up in heavy transparent plastic and I'll keep them that way while in my stockpile. I'll always test fire 2-3 shells from each box to make sure they're OK. Folded crimp papers go off just fine about 95% of the time, IME. Silvers

Here are some I've tested and are ready to rock & roll out in the field



More of the same, including some rifled slugs. I'll always hunt one or two days during our deer season with slugs, takes me back to being a kid again



Part of the ammo dump



Collector Stuff, a rare 3" 16 gauge shell given to me by a good friend. Marked W.R.A. Co. and "Dupont" with rolled crimp. That's a 2-1/2" RST 16 gauge shell beside it.

[Parker16]

Frank,Great pictures. Thanks for posting them. Those old coal mines are real interesting...great stuff.

Dave....

[sidreilley]

Interesting about the paper shells, in the recent issue of Shooting Sportsman there is an article on the new McKay-Brown high pheasant gun and along with the details of the gun, the maker expresses his opinion that he gets better patterns with paper shells, fibre wads and low antimony shot. He is so convinced that he's having special ammunition made up for him by Hull and will offer it for sale this season. I imagine it will be a bit stout for older game guns though. I recall that in the early 90's the Army Skeet team at Benning was using the old Federal Gold Medal paper shells exclusively. The coach told me that they specifically wanted them. Maybe you guys are onto something besides nostalgia.

[bbman3]

Frank and Mike,great pictures and info! Keep up the great work.I hope to do some woodcock hunting in late December and January and i will be shooting 26 inch smallbores mostly with a scattering of 27 and 28 inch doubles. Bobby

[Magwa45]

Silvers,

Good to see those old paper shotgun shells. Do you shoot rifled slugs in your Fox shotguns and if so, what are the chokes on those barrels? I have always thought that modified and full chokes were for shot only and slugs for improved cylinder.

Don

[Researcher]

There is currantly a 1940s Remington Nitro Express Rifled Slug brochure for sale on ebay, and it says they are perfectly suitable for any modern gun in good condition from cylinder to full choke.

Actually even the old "pumpkin ball" loads were small enough to go thru a choked barrel without damage. From the 1923 Remington Arms Co. Inc. catalogue their 10-gauge ball was .710", 12-gauge .645", 16-gauge .610", 20-gauge .545", 24-gauge .542" and their 28-gauge .510". Western Cartridge Co. lead balls were the same sizes, but only offered in 12-, 16- and 20-gauge and .410-bore. No wonder they were so wildly inaccurate, just bouncing down the bore pushed by the wads making the gas seal with the barrel.

[eightbore]

Sid, the U.S. Team and the Army were still shooting paper Federals last time I shot. I think the team has a deal with Winchester now because Coach Lloyd Woodhouse was handing out AAs at his last Olympics. I would guess the Army may be using the AAs also. When we shot with (not on) the Army team back in those days, we picked up all the once fired we wanted. One of the kids in our club was on the Junior Development team and he would get Federal papers drop shipped at his house. I remember shooting at Quantico and other close by International shooting venues with Army guys Matt Dryke, Al Leverette, and the late Al Mullins. Occasionally when we had a PTO shoot at Quantico or Bridgeville, Delaware, the Army would come up. At Bridgeville, we had a 100 straight pot that had gotten pretty big over the years and we were afraid Dryke or Mullins would take our money. It never happened, but a Marine Major from Quantico that trained with the Marine team ran a 99 at one shoot. Major Mike Stanton was a pilot on Marine 1 and a good International Skeet shot. However, unlike the old days, commissioned officers do not shoot on Marine or Army shotgun teams. When Major Stanton started shooting International Skeet, I bought his American skeet gun and shot it for a while. Thanks for making me think about the good old days and paper shells.

[Magwa45]

So where can you get these pumpkin balls to shoot through a Fox? Are there any manufacturers of low pressure loads or is it best to load your own shells? Such a load would be handy if you ran into some deer while out hunting for woodcock. I don't RST makes any slug shells.

Don