Extra Factory Barrels adds ? Value ?

[kl1450]

What value addition to the price of gun would members place on factory sets containing two barrel sets?
I am looking at and for a Philly or Utica 12-ga, preferably original 26" and 32" s/n to gun. Two forearms, double trigger and extractors.
My limited resources have observed good serviceable barrel sets for $300-600 depending upon vintage and condition.
If a 12-ga. Sterly is worth $800-$1200, does the xtra barrels set (factory) make the package worth more than the $1100-$1800 because
they started life together? I assume that letter guns and esp. small bores are more scarce in 2-barrel sets than 12-ga Sterlingworth's.
Any production figures and/or member thoughts on fair market value for multiple barrel sets would be much appreciated.
-KL

[George Lander]

KL: In my humble opinion a factory two barrel set, especially when lettered to the gun, would be worth at least double and possibly triple the value of the gun with one set of barrels.

Best Regards, George

[vaturkey]

My only caveat to how much it makes the gun worth is whether or not they were fitted well after the fact and didn't have the quality of the original. Speaking of SW here, but I've seen at least two sets here in Va in the last several months where the second set (same serial number and another forearm as well) were added by Savage and the quality just wasn't there. Fit and finish were awful. Saw one set where a factory rib was added to the second set of barrels and it looked like a backyard mechanic did it while he was drinking a cold Bud. Now, if it came out originally with two sets of barrels and it letters to the gun that's a completely different story. I had in my hands a pin gun with two sets of barrels at one point and ended up sending it back to the dealer because the second set of barrels had been cut. So, just be cautious.

[Silvers]

Since last spring I've seen five Foxes with extra barrels that were fitted and numbered to the frame by Savage, and all five were perfect jobs, tight on the face and with a tiny clearance between the barrel flats and the water table. They couldn't have been done any better at Philly or most anywhere for that matter.

Over the years I've also seen barrels that were "fitted" and numbered or renumbered, that had issues and/or lacked the factory proof stamping. Some of them were probably NOS barrels that were never fitted to a frame and obtained after Savage closed down, then done by amateurs.

Regarding vaturkey's post, I'm sure Savage did some funky work at times, as did Fox-Philly. With any manufacturer there are always day-after-payday guns, hot date after work guns, apprentice fitter guns, etc. For example it's somewhat common to find both Philly and Savage guns with one barrel a thou or two off face and the opposite barrel tight. I believe that happens when the hinge pin hole or the hook radius were machined at a tiny tangent.

As to the original post, what premium will a second barrel add, I'd say it depends on 1) properly fitted barrels and fore-end, and 2) if there's a step-change difference between the barrel lengths and/or chokes. To explain the second point...... IMO a gun with 26" IC/Mod barrels and 32" Full/Full barrels will command a much larger premium than one with two 28" barrels - one IC/Mod, and the second one Mod/Full. Again this is JMO. Silvers.

[George Lander]

KL: I agree with both vaturkey & Frank. I only have one two barrel set & it is a 12 gauge Sterlingworth Brush Ejector SN 10307x that letters with 26 inch barrels choked IC & Mod plus an extra set of 32 inch barrels chioked F&F. It was shipped from the Philadelphia factory on December 24, 1925 to the Watkins Cottrell Company of Richmond Virginia. I Googled Watkins Cottrell & found an invoice that states that they were a "Wholesale Hardware, Cutlery, Guns, &c" company located at 1313 E. Main St. Richmond, Va. in 1906. The invoice was to Fleming & Woodhouse Bros. and was for various hardware items. They were also agents for Dupont Powders & Fairbanks Scales.

Best Regards, George

[scaupman]

KL,

I wonder about your assumption that factory 2 barrel sets are relatively more common in 12 ga SW than in graded 12 ga and/or small bore Fox guns?

I have not looked at enough small bore Fox guns to formulate an opinion ( my interest is 12 ga Fox guns in waterfowl and trap configurations), but I have seen more factory 2 barrel sets in X and C grades than in SW 12 ga.

My sample size is small for factory 2 barrel sets, given their apparent rarity, and my collecting activities may not respresent a "random sample" of 12 ga Fox guns!

However, I would predict that folks with some wealth ($$) may have been more likely to order high grade guns and also perhaps more likely to order factory 2 barrel sets for their guns?

Note this clearly would make an interesting research project, if the factory card data were available for such purposes.

Of course, one would have to secure permission from Mr. Callahan/Savage Arms to be able to sift thru the SW cards, in order to compare proportions of 2 barrel sets in SW to various graded guns.

Personally, I would like to see more research of the factory card data for questions like this and for many other interesting and relevant questions.

Finally, Good Luck in purchasing a 2 barrel set!

[vaturkey]

I think the ugly 2 barrel sets are all in Virginia. Better stuff stayed up there in Pa.

[MARSHFELLOW]

I think Scaupman is correct....I have seen more "factory" 2bbl sets in graded Foxes (not many) than in S/Ws. I think that the logic is sound that those that could afford a graded gun could afford that original extra set of barrels at order time in greater numbers than those treating themselves to a S/W .

opinion.

tjw

[eightbore]

Scaupman, how is that "more research in the order cards" working out for you? At PGCA, we've had our research information since 1998 and there has not been any research yet. What do you think our chances are here?

[MARSHFELLOW]

Murph,

wasnt the "book of serialization" as result of access to the Parker records at Remington Arms???