Kautzky Auto Single Trigger

[Clarence Kavanaugh]

I just purchase a Sterlingworth 20 gauge, 28" barrels, double triggers w/extractor. Though I would have like to purchase a gun with a Kautzky single select trigger and auto ejectors, I found the price of such a gun out of my range ($5,500-$6,500). After a little thought, I decided that the ejectors weren't needed as I really don't want to chase shells but the single trigger would be nice. I have contacted Turnbull and Connecticut Shotguns to see if they could upgrade the gun to the Kautzky trigger, but I'm told they can't.

My questions are:
1.) Is the Kautzky trigger mechanism the same for all gauges or is their variations?
2.) Is there an aftermarket source for the Kautzky trigger mechanism (new/used)?
3.) If there isn't for question #2, is there detail drawing w/specifications available for a tool and tie maker to manufacture such?
4.) What should I expect to pay for either a trigger mechanism or drawings?

Thank you!

Clarence

[Chukarman]

I have an old 'Infallible' single trigger from a Fox. Not a Fox product, which I reckon has been out of production for some years.

[Silvers]

Hello Clarence,
I've had several Foxes apart that were fitted with Kautzky's, and thus I am familiar with them. Personally I wouldn't even consider making a K type trigger, mainly because double triggers work just fine IMO for most every hunting or target situation. Secondly, it would be very challenging and costly. And I say that despite having connections with a substantial machine shop.

You might want to look at the illustration on page 166 of McIntosh's Fox book to see what you'd have to make. While your trigger plate could be modified fairly easily, the trigger sears are much different than those used for double triggers. Regarding the internal trigger parts I suspect most of the K components were interchangeable for all gauges, but I don't know for sure. All of them would have to be made.

I have followed Foxes for years and I've never seen a K type trigger plate with all its internals and the sears offered for sale. To complicate things the 20 gauge K trigger plate is of course smaller than the more common 12 gauge K version. Likewise, I have never seen machinist-type drawings that could be used to make the parts.

Short answer: anything once made, can be remade, but in sum I think making a Kautzky clone is in the realm of "not practical at a reasonable cost". Of course all this is only my opinion. Silvers

[Scott]

Why not have Turnbull install a Miller trigger?

[Clarence Kavanaugh]

I'm not all that familar with the A. H. Fox yet, being somewhat new to the classic sxs scene. I'm still learning and this is why I joined this board to seek out those that do have the knowledge which I lack. My reason to seek out the Kautzky trigger is because I know that it was the trigger mechanism which Fox chose to equip their shotguns with. I'm not familar (at least not so far) with these other brands (Miller or Infallible) so if someone could enlighten me as for their relationship with Fox or whether they were a aftermarket option it would be appreicated.

Does anyone know what select trigger mechanism that CSMC uses in their AH Fox models, is it a inhouse design or is it a 3 party supplied?

Thank you!

Clarence

[Researcher]

It apparently is not quite the issue you think it to be Frank. It has already been done by Larry B. Schuknecht at Dutchman Woodworks. Larry had previously built the Lindsey single trigger that Baker Gun Co. used. Last August I received this email from Larry --

Hello David;
A customer of mine Dave Sizemore who operates Sugarloaf Smoothbores in Morehead, Ky. suggested I email you about a project I recently did for him. He had purchased a set of origional parts for a Fox single trigger, and using them I made six sets of parts for single trigger units. One set of parts I assembled and installed in a Savage-Fox Sterlingworth for a customer of his. It was an interesting and challanging project. I realize afterwards that considering the average Fox wood inletting that there are probably very few of those guns with S.T. units which function without some problems, and probalby the trigger unit is blamed when it is the fault of the tangs and wood structure. The interaction of the bottom tang and trigger with the sears allows no variation in their fit. For this reason I found it neccessary to place a steel piller between the top tang and the standing lug on the trigger plate through which the top tang screw passes, and it was also neccessary to give the ends of the tangs a firm foundation in the wood so there was no movement whatsoever.
Attached is a picture of the completed trigger unit laying on top of a photo of an origional trigger unit.
Also I have been making improved safety buttons with a hump similar to what Parker used, in response to the stiff safety action so common on the Fox guns.
My apologies for imposing all of this on you if you do not find it interesting.
With Best Regards as always;
Larry B. Schuknecht

[Clarence Kavanaugh]

It apparently is not quite the issue you think it to be Frank. It has already been done by Larry B. Schuknecht at Dutchman Woodworks. Larry had previously built the Lindsey single trigger that Baker Gun Co. used. Last August I received this email from Larry --

Hello David;
A customer of mine Dave Sizemore who operates Sugarloaf Smoothbores in Morehead, Ky. suggested I email you about a project I recently did for him. He had purchased a set of origional parts for a Fox single trigger, and using them I made six sets of parts for single trigger units. One set of parts I assembled and installed in a Savage-Fox Sterlingworth for a customer of his. It was an interesting and challanging project. I realize afterwards that considering the average Fox wood inletting that there are probably very few of those guns with S.T. units which function without some problems, and probalby the trigger unit is blamed when it is the fault of the tangs and wood structure. The interaction of the bottom tang and trigger with the sears allows no variation in their fit. For this reason I found it neccessary to place a steel piller between the top tang and the standing lug on the trigger plate through which the top tang screw passes, and it was also neccessary to give the ends of the tangs a firm foundation in the wood so there was no movement whatsoever.
Attached is a picture of the completed trigger unit laying on top of a photo of an origional trigger unit.
Also I have been making improved safety buttons with a hump similar to what Parker used, in response to the stiff safety action so common on the Fox guns.
My apologies for imposing all of this on you if you do not find it interesting.
With Best Regards as always;
Larry B. Schuknecht

Is it possible to contact Mr. Schuknecht at Dutchman Woodworks to see if he still does or would make this modification to my Fox and what the cost and time involved would be for such work?

Thank you!

Clarence

[Researcher]

http://www.dutchmanwoodworks.com/

[Silvers]

Interesting, possibly Clarence will let us know the result of his contact with Mr. Schuknecht, to include current availablity and pricing beyond this prototyping. Silvers

[Clarence Kavanaugh]

Interesting, possibly Clarence will let us know the result of his contact with Mr. Schuknecht, to include current availablity and pricing beyond this prototyping. Silvers

I have just sent a e-mail to Mr. Schuknecht to see if he is open to recreating the trigger for others like myself and will report back as soon as I'm able with his response if I receive one.

[Clarence Kavanaugh]

I just received permission from Larry to post this e-mail. You might see that he gave his permission in this earlier e-mail, but I had a few more questions and in one of the response he asked that I hold on the posting until he check something out first. I can't wait to send my Fox in but I need to save a few more pennies first.

I would like to suggest to the admin. of the forum to copy this e-mail to a permement posting for ease and future use.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Larry B. Schuknecht <shoptalk@dutchmanwoodworks.com>
To: clarence kavanaugh <stmichps@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Mon, February 22, 2010 6:16:47 PM
Subject: Re: Kautzky single select trigger

Hello Clarence;

Yes I have made the parts for, and have converted a Savage era Fox to the Original design Kautzky single trigger. Anything I say you may pass along to the Fox collectors forum.

The unit I make closely duplicates an original which was removed from a trigger plate long ago, with some changes such as piano wire springs rather than flat ones, etc. The original single trigger unit has a limited sear lifter travel, there for the stock head must be pillar bedded under the top tang bolt to eliminate any possibility of movement which would affect sear to trigger fit. Also the lengths of the sear legs need to be changed, one lengthened, and the other shortened. There is also milling of the trigger plate to accommodate the unit parts.

The 16 ga. gun I converted was test fired with 25 rounds before it left here with no malfunctions, and the owner hunted with it extensively last fall and reported 100 % satisfaction with it.

The basic cost to convert a double trigger Fox to a single trigger is $1,800. with any extra work charged at my present shop rate of $55.00 per hour.

My present work load would probably allow a turn around time of about two months, possibly less. I will not start such a project without at least 50% down and the balance that is due to be paid before shipping the gun.



With Best Regards;

Larry B. Schuknecht

[eightbore]

I always have to look up the word in the dictionary to see if there is a third "e", but here it is. Unbelievable. I'm going to send something to Larry, just because.