X grade...."high head vs low head"

[MARSHFELLOW]

Lookin' for opinions. I was speaking with a fellow Fox enthusiast the other day and we got on the topic of X grade engraving which got around to the fox that is engraved on the belly of the frame. I have seen both the fox with the "high head" (head upwards) and the "low head" fox which looks dejected, like he lost his best friend.

Personally, I have seen plenty of each version but I have seen a majority of the "high head" which I think is more flattering to the gun of the same name. I am curious as to what others have seen as far as rough percentages of the two different versions. I would say I have roughly seen/owned about 70% highs to 30% lows.

Your thoughts??....................

tjw

[fox-admin]

My calculations for 12 ga XE's is approximately 150 early style (approx 1912-1913) with the low head fox and very deep engraving, late style 500 (1914-1929) with the high head fox. So that's about 70/30 split.
The best XE are in the 22000 serial number range, the engraving is off the charts. There is a two barrel set 22665 XE coming up for auction at Little John's The gun has a few issues but the engraving is off the charts.

[MARSHFELLOW]

Fox-admin,

Did the "low head" go away around 1913ish for the most part???..... I thought some of the guns I have seen came much later....just going by memory, never really paid much attention.

tjw

[fox-admin]

Tom Kid says prewar XE's ( the US entered the war in 1917) are heavily engraved with the Fox nose down ( see DGJ Autumn 1996 page 45). I am sure his observations are correct and my dates are not. Also, in 1915 the forends overall length was increased by two inches. I do no that my 1918 XE has the lighter engraving and Fox nose up.

[Researcher]

The Fox on my 1923 XE-Grade is fatter then any real Fox I've seen from Virginia to the Arctic Circle.

[Silvers]

I've also read that XE forearms were lengthened in 1915 or so, but here's a short, regular length one on an XE shipped September 1918. Forend is numbered to the gun frame and the forend iron is too. Note the ebony(?) wedge doesn't come to a long/sharp point as on other XE's I've seen. Does anyone know, is this the earlier style, or something special? Anyone have an XE with a blunt wedge like this one? Silvers



Nice high head on this guy!

[AmarilloMike]

Fox XE 22XXX



Fox XE 301XXX

[Stan Hillis]

Something else interesting, to me at least. If you look at each of the three last guns pictured, the hinge, above the fox in the oval, has engraving on the three separate parts. But, on the guns with the fox's head in the up position the middle section of the hinge has the engraving in a "W" position. On the guns with the fox's head down, the engraving in the middle section is like an "M". Interesting that when the foxes head is down the "V" is also pointing down, and when the fox's head is up the "V" is also pointing up.

[Stan Hillis]

Means nothing, because XE #24483 breaks the pattern of the other three. Stan

[Silvers]

Someone wrote and asked if that is C grade forearm wood on the 1918 XE posted earlier. Answer: no. This forearm has X grade checkering. Also, the earliest C grades didn't have ebony or horn tips, and the ebony tip on all the later C grades I ever saw, came to a point at the back end and didn't have a distinct raised profile at the tip.

I am thinking this forarm is the earlier XE type made before they were lengthed. Someone out there must have a real early XE with original shorter forearm to match against.....

In answer to another question, this 1918 XE has a Kautzky single trigger. So does the first one posted by Mike. You can see the gold "R" for right barrel behind the shift button in each of the pics. Silvers

[ASavageFox]

I hope this is not thread jacking but it relates to X grades... is there any madness to the frame rebating? I see the first one that Amarillo Mike posted is not rebated (at least not on the bottom). Also there is an XE 20 bore coming up at Julia's that does not appear to be rebated either? Was it just the early ones that were not rebated?

[fox-admin]

I believe the deeply engraved fox nose down guns were not rebated. However, 19435 is both scalloped and rebated, it is believed to be exhibition gun. Look at the XE section on the home page. There are two examples of 1916 guns, one early style with no rebates and one late style with rebates. That being said XE's are all over the map, some have the small lock screw other don't. Some have the profiled breech balls others don't. Some have jeweled barrel flats others don't or have the fancy cross hatched file marks.

[loggy]

I have a 29xxx gun with the fat heads up fox. Maybe as the fox aged he got better at finding his way into the coop or the farmer couldn't shoot as well.

Speaking of heads up I think we need to give Marshfellow some credit. I had not been to the pictures section for awhile and found the 32" BE 20 3 inch. What a find. Add that to the XHE and the 129 gun and he is batting a thousand. Foxist scored a great XE. Researcher said that great guns have always been hard to find but it looks like if you keep your nose in the air they still turn up someplace. Nice job on all of the guns posted there and thanks-John

[MARSHFELLOW]

......thanks for the kind compliment Loggy....been lookin "under alot of rocks" for alot of years. The hunt is the most fun.


tjw

[waterman]

I was reeding some old post and came across this one I want to vote XE nose down they are my favorite fox guns. Donnie