XHE...and now the rest of the story...

[eightbore]

Tom, send that beater down here to Maryland and I'll not only give you a blueprint of the bore and choke dimensions, we'll pattern until we find a load that will go 100%. Seriously, if you get into this area, bring the old X with you.

[FRBRIT]

Tom,

Congratulations on your new Super-Rare Super. I watched this one from afar wishing I could be a player in the hunt for it, but it just wasn't meant to be timing wise.

I sure am glad a member got and I now can sleep well knowing it's in good hands.

Paul

[MARSHFELLOW]

Eightbore,

you bring up an interesting thought about patterning this gun...it will be fun. I own or have owned a boatload of shotguns and have fired "a billion" rounds afield at birds & targets, yet I have never fired a single round at a patterning board. I saw it done when I spent some time at the Perazzi plant years ago. They used a steel plate with grey paint or grease or somethin'. Made sense.

Guess it's time. It doesnt look like rocket science but I don't really want to count all those little spots.

What would be a good choice for a starting point test load??

[Silvers]

Tom et al., here's an easy techique when patterning a tight choked gun. Open the crimp and count the pellets in 3-5 of the shells you're using, to get a good average pellet count per shell. Oft times pellets are over/under size and alloyed with varying amounts of antimony so they don't conform to the charts showing pellets per ounce.

Shoot at a mark on a large paper at 40 yards and visually "eyeball" the center. Then draw a 30" circle using that center and count the pellets outside the 30" circle. Subtract the ones outside the circle, from the pellet count per shell, and you'll calculate the ones inside. No need to count all those pellets inside the circle. Do the division, and you'll get the choke %. If you shoot several patterns this way you'll also learn the gun's POI for the way you're holding it.

I can't lay claim to this technique. It's one I learned from the barrelsmith Kenny Eyster while in his shop getting sporting barrels done. Frank

[MARSHFELLOW]

Zhenkooyah (sp) Pan Silvers. what shell would you start with at random??

[Researcher]

Mr. Buck's load of 1 3/8 ounce of copper plated (Lubaloy) #4Ls.

[Silvers]

Pan Tomasz, that's dziekuje. I'm not aware of any modern 1-3/8 ounce loads of bare lead shot over felt/fiber wads. And even if you find some old Super X shells the shot is likely to be oxidized and balled together; patterning will suffer IMO. Shooting modern shells with plastic shotcups won't correlate with the loads the Supers were tested with. Most all the Supers had pellet counts listed on the backs of the cards, and by coincidence Bill Harris just sent me copies of the pellet counts for 9 of the Supers he's owned. When I get a chance I'll do a summary and will post here.

Back to your patterning, if you're going to use your XE/HE for waterfowling you might some handloads using bismuth, or RST's factory shells with NICE shot. I've patterned a couple of Supers for foxes and coyotes with modern shotcup #2 and BB lead shot and have gotten 80+% patterns. If you want to test yours with outstanding shells for next year's Bo-Whoop - get some Winchester AA "Super Pigeon" shells with 1-1/4 ounce of coppered 7-1/2's. Local saying "that extra shot has to go somewhere". Franusz

[MARSHFELLOW]

Researcher, capital idea!!....send me a box that I can bust into and I'll warm those pipes a bit.

Dziekuje Franusz, I've never loaded a shell...wont be startin' right now.

BTW, for those "whitebread" types we are practicing a bit of Polski.

[Researcher]

With all of this interest in the Super-Fox lately maybe Morris will get the hint and start loading some 3-inch 12-gauge shells with 1 3/8 ounce of his nice shot and vintage Super-X type card and fiber wads.

[Jim Cloninger]

If you are looking for a waterfowl factory load for your HE, I would pattern Bismaxx's 2 3/4" 1 1/4 oz 1220 fps #4 to see how it performs in your gun. This cartridge patterns very well in my 2 HE's. It is a bit lower in velocity which usually means better patterns than the higher velocity ones. Also, less stress on old wood. These are their 'sporting game loads' and are a little less expensive than their 'waterfowl loads'. Jim

[eightbore]

Researcher, Morris Baker and the crew at RST are putting together some classic pigeon loads as we speak. News will be forthcoming soon.

[MARSHFELLOW]

Eightbore,

There's some good news, this gun and I are itching to get into the ring!!

[ASavageFox]

Marshfellow, Oh how my heart burns! Congrats on your aquisition. Since I live close to St. Joe and knew some of the old time gun men there, as well as having done business with Wyeth Hardware when my parents were in that business, I offer you a "hummm could be scenario" that may be traceable. Harold Hatfield and his family ran a sporting goods store there for years, and this would be the kind of thing they would deal in. I bought a Browning Diana 2 barrel trap and skeet set, 20ga./12 ga. and Smith Crown grade several years ago. Yes that is the same Hatfield clan that is now making guns in Turkey and made the wonderful Hatfield blackpowder rifles. I think one of the brothers still lives in St. Joe and the store may still be there although after Harold was gone they didn't deal in the high grade stuff anymore. I wish you luck on your quest. Lee.

There is an old Fox B or BE on gunsamerica.com that is for sale my Hatfield Hardware in St. Joe, MO... its terribly overpriced and the stocks have been replaced and it is not listed as an old B .... think they were asking $3000...just FYI

[MARSHFELLOW]

Lee & ASavageFox,

thanks for that Hatfield tip...I need to chase that down...I'm not doing so hot tracing the lineage of ownership of this really neat Fox. The chap who ordered it really knew what he wanted and seemed to be on the cutting edge of some "options". In my mind he had to be a pigeon shooter or a well healed serious waterfowler...or both.

The pawn shop (yup) that I got it from tells me that they cant release the previous ownership information on "consigned" items. Some type of law??? What stinks is they did tell me it was "consigned" by a grandson that inherited it....that sounds like pretty pertinant info to me!!!! I may need to run some type of ad in some kinda local papers out there and hopefully catch someone's attention.

This history may be a challenge that will take awhile but this gun has quickly become one of my favorite Foxes and "I gots ta know". It cleaned up so well and is so very honest and legit. It still is the only factory Philly beavertail that I've seen to date...as well as the only "straight flat rib" too.

[AmarilloMike]

Lee & ASavageFox,
The pawn shop (yup) that I got it from tells me that they cant release the previous ownership information on "consigned" items. Some type of law??? What stinks is they did tell me it was "consigned" by a grandson that inherited it....that sounds like pretty pertinant info to me!!!! I may need to run some type of ad in some kinda local papers out there and hopefully catch someone's attention.

You might ask the pawn shop to forward your name and phone number to the consignor. He might be happy to talk to you about the gun. Maybe include an offer to make a $50.00 contribution to his favorite charity.

Best,

Mike