Straight Stocked HE Photos added
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Silvers
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Center-to-center distance on the hammer tip holes is the same for all 12 gauge frames, regular and 0-frame. I believe the brazing flats on heavy O-weight barrels were machined so the centers of the barrel chambers (when the barrels were brazed together during the assembly process) would align with the hammer tip holes. Silvers
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Silvers
- Posts: 5188
- Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:28 pm
- Location: Between Phila and Utica
- Has thanked: 1232 times
- Been thanked: 1880 times
Just some further information, a friend e-mailed to me last night with the width across the breech balls, weights and barrel lengths on 9 HE 12 gauge guns.
Regular 12 gauge measure 2.340 - 2.350" across the breech balls.
2.40 in - 9.240 lbs - 32"
2.42 - 9.615 - 32
2.41 - 9.365 - 30
2.42 - 9.120 - 30
2.41 - 9.675 - 30
2.41 - 9.520 - 32
2.42 - 8.380 - 30
2.40 - 8.545 - 32
2.41 - 8.440 - 30
All these guns are built on the heavy 0 frame. I thought some more about the theory that 0 frames were made from regular 12 gauge frame forgings, but were filed/machined less. If the frame forgings were really oversize that is certainly possible with modern CNC centers, but in the 1920's that would be very complex machining - particularly on the breech balls. The odds are that the breech balls were forged very close to finish size and just finished filed to clean them up. Net, I'm still of the opininion one set of forging dies were used for regular 12 gauge and another set for 0 frames.
I cannot comment on HE 20 frames because I haven't seen enough of them, nor measured any. Silvers
Regular 12 gauge measure 2.340 - 2.350" across the breech balls.
2.40 in - 9.240 lbs - 32"
2.42 - 9.615 - 32
2.41 - 9.365 - 30
2.42 - 9.120 - 30
2.41 - 9.675 - 30
2.41 - 9.520 - 32
2.42 - 8.380 - 30
2.40 - 8.545 - 32
2.41 - 8.440 - 30
All these guns are built on the heavy 0 frame. I thought some more about the theory that 0 frames were made from regular 12 gauge frame forgings, but were filed/machined less. If the frame forgings were really oversize that is certainly possible with modern CNC centers, but in the 1920's that would be very complex machining - particularly on the breech balls. The odds are that the breech balls were forged very close to finish size and just finished filed to clean them up. Net, I'm still of the opininion one set of forging dies were used for regular 12 gauge and another set for 0 frames.
I cannot comment on HE 20 frames because I haven't seen enough of them, nor measured any. Silvers
Well One might think it is possible that only the oversized frames were left over when Savage ceased production. Perhaps all the regular frames were used up and the "Bean Counters" knew to much labor was required to bring these frames down to regular specs. Just a thought.
Fin to feather I have seen a few straight grip foxes with the slight "swan bend" to the stock. Most have been late Philly guns. These could be factory but we have no way of knowing for sure. The factory catalogs did state that stocks could be bent at extra cost and this may also have caused these curves. I think Researcher posted a picture of the original Bo Whoop not long ago in which it appears to have this slight "swan" toe line. My 1927 XE also has a slight bend to the toe line. Paul
Fin to feather I have seen a few straight grip foxes with the slight "swan bend" to the stock. Most have been late Philly guns. These could be factory but we have no way of knowing for sure. The factory catalogs did state that stocks could be bent at extra cost and this may also have caused these curves. I think Researcher posted a picture of the original Bo Whoop not long ago in which it appears to have this slight "swan" toe line. My 1927 XE also has a slight bend to the toe line. Paul
A FOX GETS THE GAME!