Fox Sterlingworth Firing Pin

[Macklew2]

Has anyone had a right barrel firing pin issue in an early Fox SW? I tried test firing some 2-1/2" low pressure roll crimped loads yesterday and on the first try, I got a dent in the primer of the right barrel. Tried same round (with dented primer) in the left barrel, no problem. Tried another one in the right barrel and got a fire. Seems like I might have a firing pin issue, but wanted others thoughts first. Thanks Brad

[Silvers]

Has anyone had a right barrel firing pin issue in an early Fox SW? I tried test firing some 2-1/2" low pressure roll crimped loads yesterday and on the first try, I got a dent in the primer of the right barrel. Tried same round (with dented primer) in the left barrel, no problem. Tried another one in the right barrel and got a fire. Seems like I might have a firing pin issue, but wanted others thoughts first. Thanks Brad

AH Fox shotguns do not have a separate firing pin; actually it's the tip of each hammer that contacts the shotshell primer. In any problem solving as reported here a single issue as with only one shell doesn't necessarily mean a problem with the gun. Often a misfire on one barrel indicates a minimal but acceptable firing tip protrusion BUT in combination with a "low primer". And switching the shell to the opposite barrel with a bit more firing tip protrusion will fire it. If that shell is 2-1/2" and roll crimped it sounds like it wasn't done on regular production loading machinery and somehow that primer might have been set in too deeply and only dented. That's a common problem with those who reload shotshells.

Another scenario is that the shell primer depth was OK but the tip of the hammer on that side is chipped or broken and thus a bit shorter than it should be. Firing tip protrusion on an AH Fox shotgun is typically .045 to .050" out from the breech face, and if you have a caliper with a depth slider you can easily measure to confirm. That's with the hammer(s) in the fired position. frank

[Macklew2]

Has anyone had a right barrel firing pin issue in an early Fox SW? I tried test firing some 2-1/2" low pressure roll crimped loads yesterday and on the first try, I got a dent in the primer of the right barrel. Tried same round (with dented primer) in the left barrel, no problem. Tried another one in the right barrel and got a fire. Seems like I might have a firing pin issue, but wanted others thoughts first. Thanks Brad

AH Fox shotguns do not have a separate firing pin; actually it's the tip of each hammer that contacts the shotshell primer. In any problem solving as reported here a single issue as with only one shell doesn't necessarily mean a problem with the gun. Often a misfire on one barrel indicates a minimal but acceptable firing tip protrusion BUT in combination with a "low primer". And switching the shell to the opposite barrel with a bit more firing tip protrusion will fire it. If that shell is 2-1/2" and roll crimped it sounds like it wasn't done on regular production loading machinery and somehow that primer might have been set in too deeply and only dented. That's a common problem with those who reload shotshells.

Another scenario is that the shell primer depth was OK but the tip of the hammer on that side is chipped or broken and thus a bit shorter than it should be. Firing tip protrusion on an AH Fox shotgun is typically .045 to .050" out from the breech face, and if you have a caliper with a depth slider you can easily measure to confirm. That's with the hammer(s) in the fired position. frank

I will measure that with my calipers and report my findings. Thanks Frank.

[Hilltop]

Very good explanation Frank. I ran into a very similar issue last year. I assumed it was a mechanical issue, but found out on factory loaded ammunition not all primers are the same. Some are harder than others and require a better strike.

[Silvers]

Thanks Cory for your comment. Honestly though, I know there are numerous gents here who could have answered that and similar tech questions but for some reason(s) so many hold back and wait for a comparatively few regulars - count them on a few fingers - to spend their time to answer. And now it's even gotten so that very few readers will even key in a thumbs up emoji to those that reply. I'm sure all have heard that quote about not knowing (call it valuing) what you have until it's gone.

I'd really like to start seeing answers by others who've been Fox students here for years and years. frank

[Macklew2]

Thanks Cory for your comment. Honestly though, I know there are numerous gents here who could have answered that and similar tech questions but for some reason(s) so many hold back and wait for a comparatively few regulars - count them on a few fingers - to spend their time to answer. And now it's even gotten so that very few readers will even key in a thumbs up emoji to those that reply. I'm sure all have heard that quote about not knowing (call it valuing) what you have until it's gone.

I'd really like to start seeing answers by others who've been Fox students here for years and years. frank

I agree Frank...I would really like to see better participation, but it seems like this is a "closed" group and no one wants to respond to the new people. My friend Ryan (Dutch) has posted several things on different areas of the forum and can't even buy a response even though he has his CC info in here on autopay . I sincerely appreciate each and every reply that you and others (researcher, foxnut, etc) have. It just seems like this group doesn't want new people. Too bad you are not like SASSS...that group is very encouraging and open to new members participation.

[Fin2Feather]

Can't speak for others but I simply don't have the knowledge to respond to technical questions. I appreciate those who can and do. If I don't have anything of value to contribute I just don't post. I'm much more of a "human interest" guy than a tech guy, so I can give a sometimes rather uninformed opinion on some things, but that's all I got.

[Researcher]

I always enjoy Frank's posts. Thank you. I know my own tendency to rush and/or get frustrated so long ago I vowed to leave going inside our objects of interest to others.

[Silvers]

Thank you Dave; I also appreciate the time and effort you put toward your posts and replies.

I do understand that many are not technically minded but we have a large enough percentage that are, and I chalk up the lack of replies by many of them to "I'll let Tom, Dick or Harry do it". That attitude was far less common in the early days of the AHFCA and this website, but has gotten much more prevalent over recent years. The one exception might be when someone makes a nice find of a high condition Fox, and the comments and thumbs up emojis flow. frank

[DarylC]

I also appreciate when Frank, Dave, Craig or any other member chimes in with info. I'm still learning about all the subtleties that occur in Foxes so I reserve my opinions for fear of leading someone down the wrong path. I was hired to direct our shooting activities so if you think it's difficult getting people to respond here you should try to get 5 shooters to compete on a challenge team.

[Foxnut]

Thanks Cory for your comment. Honestly though, I know there are numerous gents here who could have answered that and similar tech questions but for some reason(s) so many hold back and wait for a comparatively few regulars - count them on a few fingers - to spend their time to answer. And now it's even gotten so that very few readers will even key in a thumbs up emoji to those that reply. I'm sure all have heard that quote about not knowing (call it valuing) what you have until it's gone.

I'd really like to start seeing answers by others who've been Fox students here for years and years. frank

I agree Frank...I would really like to see better participation, but it seems like this is a "closed" group and no one wants to respond to the new people. My friend Ryan (Dutch) has posted several things on different areas of the forum and can't even buy a response even though he has his CC info in here on autopay . I sincerely appreciate each and every reply that you and others (researcher, foxnut, etc) have. It just seems like this group doesn't want new people. Too bad you are not like SASSS...that group is very encouraging and open to new members participation.

Brad,
I don’t think it means it’s a closed group….IMHO especially when it comes to the technical/repair/restoration of Fox guns (or any gun in my hands) that many of us just don’t poccess the skill or knowledge to answer the question(s) that arise. Also, we are at the tail end of summer so responses may be a little slow right now. Keep posting across the forum and you’ll get responses.

Now as to your question, while I don’t think one or two shells will give you a definitive answer on a particular gun. I have a Browning 725 I use occasionally. Last Spring I was shooting a round of Sporting Clays at Blendon Pines. I was using Fiochi Shooting Dynamics 1 Oz loads (red box) and had three of the shells not fire in my lower barrel. The rest of the shells from that box worked in both barrels. I put those three shells a side and didn’t use them. I didn’t have an issue with any of the remainder of the shells from that box or the rest of that flat. I have used Fiochi shells as well as B&P and Remington Target loads in that gun and have not had any issues since. I’m guessing that the three factory shells had the primer set lower than normal but who knows.

[Silvers]

Just for info, the Browning Citori models to include Brett's 725 have an acute angle as regards the hammer striking the under barrel's firing pin, and accordingly a little lesser firing pin travel especially with a long compressed, weaker hammer spring. That's well known amongst frequent shooters and I often see gents switching a shell with a slightly low primer from the lower to upper barrel to get it to fire. A fix at least for a time is to change out the lower barrel's hammer spring to a new one, and a shooting buddy - graduate of a gunsmithing school - frequently does that for friends that shoot 425, 525, 725 etc etc Brownings. frank

[Sporrns]

Just for info, the Browning Citori models to include Brett's 725 have an acute angle as regards the hammer striking the under barrel's firing pin, and accordingly a little lesser firing pin travel especially with a long compressed, weaker hammer spring. That's well known amongst frequent shooters and I often see gents switching a shell with a slightly low primer from the lower to upper barrel to get it to fire. A fix at least for a time is to change out the lower barrel's hammer spring to a new one, and a shooting buddy - graduate of a gunsmithing school - frequently does that for friends that shoot 425, 525, 725 etc etc Brownings. frank

Precisely right - when I began to get an average of 3-4 shells per box failing to detonate in the lower barrel of my go-to Browning CItori 20 gauge, I ordered and installed new hammer springs - problem solved! Kevin