production numbers for long-legged smallbores

[Fox20obsessed]

Soooo... I just picked up a sweet 30" barreled 20 bore serlingworth and it's got me wondering...Anybody have a clue as to how many 20 gauges were built with 30" and 32" tubes??? Graded and Sterlingworth...I'd be really interested to hear. In my short ten year Fox collecting career I have only seen a few of these 30" twenties come to market...passed one up last year and have thought about it since then.
Thanks in Advance.
-Matt

[bbman3]

I have a 20 gauge 30 inch sterlingworth.Bobby

[Fox20obsessed]

Bobby,
How do you like yours? Do you use it on doves? Also, how is it choked? The one I just got is M/F, and I think it will be killer on doves.
Thanks,
Matt

[Fox20obsessed]

Anyone? Bueller???

[Jeff S]

I would like to help, but I can’t. Some of the members have accumulated a lot of data, however, since the organization doesn’t have Sterlingworth cards, that information might not be available.

[fox-admin]

In my 20 years of Fox collecting, I know of 4 32" 20ga Sterlingworths, one Utica and three Philly made. I did a tabulation of CE Grade 20 ga guns for my DGJ article, 30" guns made up 12.5% of the total. My guess is that 30" Sterlingworths were made in about the same proportion as the CE's. So 30" Sterlingworths are somewhat uncommon but not rare in my opinion. They only rare if your listing one for sale
Matt you seem to be a little bit on the impatient side expecting folks to post immediately, just say'n.

[arcmaster]

I have had the honor to own 3 - 32 inch 20 gauge fox shotguns. The first was a CE, the second that I acquired was a Utica Sterly, and the third being a Philly Sterly. I sold the CE and the Philly Sterly to friends (wanted to share the love a bit), and currently own the Utica. It shoots and swings like a dream and is hell on the doves out to very long ranges as it is choked full and full. I love 20 gauge Fox shotguns and agree with Mr. McIntosh that they are the best proportioned American smallbore out there. The 20 gauge Sterly's account for roughly 80% of my Fox inventory.

[Fox20obsessed]

Gentlemen,
Thank you for posting. Arcmaster I would love to see that 32” gun someday I bet it does swing nicely. Craig, thanks for the numbers. I agree with your assessment. So if roughly 20,200 (I guess close to 20,120) 20 bores were built and as you say roughly 12.5% had 30” pipes...somewhere between 2 and 3 thousand were made. Does that sound about right? So not all that rare. Even so, I have not seen a bundle with the long barrels for sale. So now I just need a good shooter grade 20 bore sterly with 28” tubes. I had a very mint utica gun with 28” barrels that was like new. This past season I shot maybe a dozen RST loads through the gun and it shot loose. WTH? The search continues. Jeff S, thank you for weighing in as well, I saw your man cave post and agree with Craig you are one heck of a deer slayer sir. And Craig please accept my apologies, I am rather impatient. I did intend the Ferris Bueller post as a friendly joke...I guess the whole quarantine thing is getting to me. But as I’m sure you can tell by my post I am pretty giddy about the long-legged vixen headed to my FFL.
Anyhow, for anyone who has been following my restock project in the custom guns post I am going to drop the wood off to be checkered this week and will post pics before hand, but I have some more block sanding and shaping to wrap up. Furniture is looking pretty good.
Thanks guys,
Matt

[JasonPeck]

As Dave pointed out last year, there is a gap of about 3500 in the production of 20 gauge Sterlingworths. I'm guessing 17,800. So based on Craigs 12.5% that would be about 2225 with 30" barrels.

[Fox20obsessed]

Jason,
Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I must have missed Daves post on that, but a very valuable tidbit indeed. I’m glad I’m not the only one who loves Fox 20’s. Some very good info here.
Thanks,
Matt

[Silvers]

….. So now I just need a good shooter grade 20 bore sterly with 28” tubes. I had a very mint utica gun with 28” barrels that was like new. This past season I shot maybe a dozen RST loads through the gun and it shot loose. WTH? Matt....

Huh? Matt, I'd like to see that gun when you meet up with some of the fox fanatics at one of the events nearby you in PA. Meanwhile I'm not sure what you mean by "shot loose"? IME Fox guns when properly lubed are one of the most enduring of those by period double gun makers, and even better with Fox/Utica guns due to advances in metallurgy.

frank

[Fox20obsessed]

Frank,
I know...WHAT!?! I was really mad about that gun. I sold it already btw. It was tight as a drum with the forend off and after those few low pressure loads it was loose with the forend off. When I inspected the barrels it appeared to have a glaring flaw. The barrels were uneven where they make contact with the breech face. Read that as one tube was longer than the other. It took me a while to figure out what caused it to shoot loose but when I put a straight edge across the breech end of the barrels one tube was about 1/32” longer than the other. Factory worker must have come to work drunk that day or something. I was probably more sad than mad because this gun was super clean, mint in fact with ALL of the case colors and bluing, best barrels I have seen come out of utica. It had the 28” pipes choked IC/M from the factory and drops of 1.5 and 2 5/8”....the thing was sweet and I still have bad dreams about it as I thought I had found THE gun for me to use for the rest of my life, however hopes faded as quickly as gunsmoke and I sold the gun for exactly what I had paid. The buyer called me after receiving the gun to tell me how nice it was and how happy he was about it. Made me nauseous. For a Utica build fox it was really well done except for the lock-up. I’m sure I could have shot it that way for years but I can’t stand to feel a loose gun in my hands when walking all day. With the advanced metallurgy I was planning on shooting this gun a LOT and occasionally with winchester super-X loads for pheasants, but after it loosened up with RST’s I figured I better recoup my funds for a different gun. This gun also had factory 2 3/4” chambers without the savage chamber markings which I find unsightly.
-Matt

[fox-admin]

So based on my tally of 20ga guns in CE grade only 1% were made as 32" inch guns. If we assume the proportion is similar for 20ga Sterlingworths then about 175 32" 20's were made. Less than 5 are known. I sure would like to have access to the 20ga Sterlingworth cards for a couple of days.

[Researcher]

Some years ago I started through the graded 20-gauge records and in a little over the first 3000 I had found 48 32-inch barrel guns.
DE -- 3
XE -- 4
CE -- 7
BE -- 2
AE - 18
A -- 14

Some day I've got to go back in and do those last few hundred Savage era guns.

I also went through the cards for the 20-gauge HE-Grade guns and found, 26 with 32-inch barrels, 33 with 30-inch barrels and three with 28-inch barrels.

[Sporrns]

I am with Dave and Craig - I have lobbied before for approaching Savage in a gentlemanly way to ask permission for a work party effort to copy the Sterlingworth cards similar to the effort that gave us the cards for the graded guns. In previous posts, I have alluded to how the PGCA approached Remington for permission to copy the Parker Gun records, including details on the manpower requirements (e.g., a Research Team approach, dedicated time on their calendar, available copying equipment, etc.). I'm convinced that this is the only way we will ever gain access to the Sterlingworth cards. I'm also convinced that there are people in this organization that have "ins" with Savage and can help facilitate this. If we get the Go from Savage, I could see spending a week in Springfield MA copying cards during the day and having pleasant evenings with dinners out locally, then kicking back at the motel with fine cigars and single malts....almost like Ilion. Kevin