Fox Collectors

Gentlemen, on another site someone is recommending the use of Federal vintage gold 23/4" 7/8oz loads in vintage guns. I have a 1930's Fox AE in good shape. Would you recommend these shells or should I stick to the 2 1/2" loads from RS?

Thanks
Jim

Use the RST 2-1/2 in all gauges, That is all you need and i would stay away from the 2-3/4 on the older guns of value. On my Philly made fox guns i use all 2-1/2 length shells and I have a little DHE 28, Factory 24 " barrels and use the 2-1/2 in that little gun and drop pheasant with ease.

You will be shocked on how well the 2-1/2 work on game,,, Just my View,

Pat

FOX CHAMBERS --

The only two A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogues, that I have seen, that state chamber lengths are the 1913 and 1914. They both state 12-gauge guns are regularly chambered for 2 3/4 - inch shells, 16-gauge 2 9/16 – inch shells and 20-gauge 2 1/2 - inch shells. That being said, virtually every 12-gauge Ansley H. Fox gun made in Philadelphia (other than the HE-Grade Super-Fox) that I've run a chamber gauge in shows about 2 5/8 - inch. The chambers of unmolested 16-gauge guns seem to run about 2 7/16 inch and 20-gauge guns a hair over 2 3/8 inch. A very few graded guns were ordered with longer chambers. Savage began stating chambered for 2 ¾ inch shells in their 1938 Fox catalogues.

All this being said there is a good body of evidence that back in those days chambers were held about 1/8 inch shorter than the shells for which they were intended. In the recently published book "The Parker Story" the Remington vintage specification sheets on pages 164 to 169 call for a chamber 1/8-inch shorter than the shell for which it is intended. Also in the 1930's there were a couple of articles in "The American Rifleman" (July 1936 and March 1938) on the virtue of short chambers. A recent issue of The Double Gun Journal carried an article on tests showing no significant increase in pressure from shooting shells in slightly short chambers. IMHO I don't much sweat that 1/8-inch in 12-gauge guns. On the other hand when one gets a 20-gauge chambered at 2 3/8-inch likely intended for 2 1/2-inch shells I do worry about folks firing 2 3/4-inch shells in such guns.

No one can really tell you over the internet what shells may or may not be safe in any given gun. But, I've been shooting 2 3/4 inch shells in my 12-gauge Fox doubles for over 40 years with no ill effects, even including 3 3/4 dram equiv. 1 1/4 ounce of shot Super-X or Nitro Express type shells when the situation calls for it. On the other hand, for high volume shooting at clay targets I love my 1200 fps 7/8 ounce 6300 psi reloads in a Remington STS hull. Easy on me and the old guns. The only gun I baby with ONLY these very light loads is a very light, 6 pounds 5 ounce, 12-gauge. I pretty much shoot what I feel like in 3-weight and heavier guns.

JChase,

If the shells are the 7/8oz Federal Gold Medal loads from Midway, you should be fine. I recall pressures being listed as 5000psi and the velocity is 1200fps. Works great with my 1915 vintage Sterlingworth.

Jeff

Thanks Guys! Answers are kind of all over the board but, I appreciate the reponses. It sounds like I would be OK as long as I use lower pressure loads and don't push it. It probably won't matter for know since I just purchased a case of shells from RST.


Jim

I just received two flats of the Midway Gold Medals 12 ga. 7/8 oz. I plan to use them in an older (1911) Sterlingworth to supplement the Vintagers from Polywad. The Gold Medals are advertised with a very low psi, and not for use in auto-guns. They probably wont function inertia single triggers in the newer O/Us; that will get tested later this afternoon at our new Wobble Clay range.

I must admit that due to ignorance I have been shooting standard 2 3/4" shells in both my mid-1910s Philly Fox 20 and 16 Ga guns for many years. Honestly, before joining this group I had never heard of short chambers on American made guns. I have toyed with the idea of lengthening the chambers on these guns, mostly due to the outlandish cost of short shells. The guns have suffered no ill effects from the use of typical high and low brass 2 3/4" shells.

Well, Midway's Federal Gold Medal 2 3/4" shells shoot fine, but they seem to hang up on the firing pins in my 1915 Sterlingworth (12ga). Very difficult to open the gun smoothly. They also function inertia SST on newer O/Us just fine, whereas the lite reloads my buddy uses at our Clay range do not. Did pick up some of Gamebore's new "Vintager" White Gold 2 1/2" shells at the Vintagers, and those are great in the old Fox, no hang up at all.