Fox Collectors

I am 65 years old, my wife and i live in northern lower michigan, and I started hunting again after a 40 year lay off. I am very interested in purchasing an older side by side shotgun to bird hunt with, grouse, woodcock and pheasants. I am planning on paying for a fitting session next spring then get my current beretta 20 gauge over under fitted, and then purchase an older side by side. I see mostly 12 gauge older guns, if the older gun has 2 1/2 inch shells, is it expensive to have a gunsmith change to 2 3/4 inch? Would that detract from value? Are 2 1/2 inch shells readily available? My first choice would be a 20 gauge, could I use lighter load shells and get a 12 gauge for less kick? I may end up just selling the beretta and use an older shotgun exclusively, not sure yet, or maybe get 2 older guns if I like the first one. One for grouse and woodcock, and one for pheasant. My wife and I rescued a 2.5 year old brittany in november 2017 he had no previous hunting experience. This last season the dog was nothing short of spectacular in my eyes and my hunting buddies eyes too, especially for a "first year" dog. If there is someone on the forum that would not mind a phone call sometime (if thats within your rules) I just need to get some advice before I purchase a gun. Or if there is someone near my location, I would gladly drive a ways to get an education. Thank You,

I have another question, will I be automatically notified by e mail to a posting? I just found the notify box below. Thank You

short light recoil shells are readily available

this is a maker many of us deal with

http://www.rstshells.com/

stock fit with the older guns can be an issue - "modern" dimensions do exist, just make sure to ask the question when shopping

modifications affect value - but if you are looking at shooter condition guns - it is not such an issue as it is with high condition collector guns

OH,
Thank you, would it be easier to bend the stock on a newer gun then? Is the older guns stocks more brittle and harder to bend? I will ask the guy fitting me a lot of questions during the fitting. Just trying to learn what I can before the fitting next spring. I have been on a couple of the gun selling sites and it is a little overwhelming for someone that does not know a lot about guns. I want an older gun to hunt with, the man that first took me hunting when I was 11 years old, only hunted with side by sides. I think it will bring back a lot of good memories if I can find a side by side to hunt with. Thanks again for your input.

Bending a stock is a crap shoot, I would not buy a gun assuming it could be bent to my dimensions.
If upland game is your main focus I would be looking for a small bore 28" Sterlingworth. Normally a 16ga will sell for a little less than a 20ga. Both guns are about the best bargain in vintage American SxS shotguns. Many were made so they are available in a wide range of condition and price. Realize that you will need to adapt your shooting to a gun with about 1 1/2" x 2 3/4" drop at heel with a LOP of 14 1/8". Dimensions can also be modified some with recoil pads and removable comb risers.
Educating your eye regarding condition will take time measured in years. I would recommend developing a relationship with one of the dealers specializing in quality sxs's and have them guide you. You will pay a little more but it would be money well spent.
Spend $30 and join the Fox Collectors Assoc. We have a members only section with a for sale section and a wanted to buy list.

fox administrator,
Thank you, thats good info you gave me. I have always owned 20 gauge shotguns only. The beretta I have has a 26" barrel with interchangeable chokes. My last gun was a citori with 28" barrels. The 26" barrels almost feel to short, the gun seems whippy like its to short. I have always shot guns with 28" barrels too. The other problem is I haven't hunted in so many years, other hunters have told me since they had a gun properly fitted, it has helped them a lot. I am hoping once I get the proper measurements, I can look for a gun with similar measurements and modify any used side by side. I have never shot a gun with 2 triggers either so thats another question. We hunt pheasants at a pheasant farm after season is over, and its usually in the 20's when we hunt. I am not sure a double trigger will work with heavier gloves. Those are the types of questions I have before I make a purchase. One shotgun that caught my eye was a sauer (spelling) from germany, it had a little bit of scrollwork done on the receiver which made it look like it was a grade above field grade. I really want a fox, or similar american made gun if possible. I will go ahead and send the $30 dollars, which is another good suggestion. Thanks for your help.

Here’s my two cents,take it if you like.Look for a late production Savage made 16 gauge Sterlingworth.From what I have read on this site it seems the consensus is that these guns usually have much more shootable dimensions.Chamber length markings started to appear on some of them in the late 1930’s.I have a 12 gauge Sterlingworth so marked 2 3/4 inch chamber.If you find a gun you like and it isn’t marked as to chamber length shoot the RST shells to play it safe.The gloves I hunt with cover my hand but allow my fingertips to be exposed if I like.

SPE33, I have a pair of gloves like that too. So your gun has double triggers then? Sorry I don't know much about older guns. Do you think it would be hard to use a shotgun with single trigger, then change to one with a double trigger? I don't remember even shooting a double trigger gun. Thanks again, Administrator, I sent $31.50 by credit card, not sure if I did it right or not for a membership.

All you have to do is remember to move your finger off one trigger on to the other one.See if one of your friends has a double trigger gun you could try.It’s not that hard.All my Foxes save one have double triggers.I believe a single trigger may have been an option on the Sterlingworth but you will look a long time to find one.These were economy grade guns.

Welcome to the group glassman. I have vintage side by sides with double and single triggers. I've noticed that shooting skeet with gloves can be a problem with the double triggers. If you are hunting in the cold weather, I wouldn't rule out the double trigger guns, but you will need a good pair of tight fitting cloves. By the way... I live in Grand Rapids, but I have a cottage in Traverse City so I occasionally hunt in that area. Where are you in northern Michigan? Jeff

glassman48 wrote:SPE33, I have a pair of gloves like that too. So your gun has double triggers then? Sorry I don't know much about older guns. Do you think it would be hard to use a shotgun with single trigger, then change to one with a double trigger? I don't remember even shooting a double trigger gun. Thanks again, Administrator, I sent $31.50 by credit card, not sure if I did it right or not for a membership.

I have shot both single and double trigger guns for as long as I can remember. I can switch between the two in the middle of a dove shoot, or a round of sporting clays with only the most minute amount of thought. It is just a natural thing for me to do. I have a couple of friends who do the same. I think once you get really comfortable shooting a double trigger gun, switching between it and a single trigger won't be a problem.

Good luck, and welcome. SRH

Stan,
Thank you, I think if I would of kept hunting instead of so many years off, I wouldn't have so many questions Jeff, I own kalkaska glass and northern michigan firewood products. They are located 1.5 miles north of the main light just off u.s. 131. Please stop by sometime, and bring some guns if you want. I just called a buddy that is going to let me borrow an old winchester 12 gauge side by side to try on pheasants. I can't believe how much I missed hunting. I am looking forward to having an older side by side someday. On opening day last fall, I couldn't sleep the night before because I was so excited, then my brittany on his first day hunting found 8 grouse and a woodcock. Hardly slept the rest of the season I really appreciate your welcome here, and your helpful advice. If any of you members come through kalkaska, please look me up. Thanks again, Ed

Another question I have is about chokes, the gun I am borrowing is modified and full, some of the older guns are full, full. Would it be possible to have a gunsmith open the bore out in one or both barrels? Or screw in chokes, or would that completely devalue the gun? Does anyone have an idea how expensive that would be? My best hope is to find a 20 gauge or 16 gauge with 28" barrels in improved cylinder and modified. When we hunt pheasants on planted birds, most shots are relatively close, grouse in 2nd season I had a few long shots without leaves which is why I was thinking of the double triggers. Does a 16 gauge kick like a 12, or halfway between a 20 and 12? Someone this last year I think said to use light load shells in an older 12 gauge and it would be similar to my 20, can't remember now. Thanks again for everyones input.

No problem with opening the chokes. I can recommend Mike Orlen (you can google him). Cost I believe is circa 100 dollars to open both. It will hurt the value IMO if you mess with a mint gun. However, if your talking a shooter grade Sterly then the change in value won't be much. Recoil will be a tad more then a 20 gauge IMO. Most folks shoot RST loads. If you happen to get a later model savage made 16 gauge you may be able to find one with factory 2 3/4" chambers. Many folks will shoot regular 1 oz factory loads out of those guns.

vaturkey,
Thanks for that info, I am going to try to shoot a 16 gauge gun also, I just always had a 20 gauge to hunt with. I shot a 12 gauge trap gun once, it was a semi automatic, I shot 3 rounds at a trap range, it didn't kick much but after 75 shells my shoulder wasn't used to it. I think thats why I always stayed with 20's. Thanks again. Hope your weather is nicer than ours, we are at a balmy negative 6 degrees this morning, better than yesterday, it was minus 20