Fox Collectors

Here's something a little different, a few pics of my restocked Winchester M-12 Skeet gun that got out shooting today. She's a late 1940's "2-pin" duck bill VR gun with a knockout custom stock that's replete with a Niedner-style steel buttplate. 26-inch with WS-1 choke that was designed by the Big Red W for optimum patterning at modest range - but with modern shotcup shells she didn't have a problem with any of Evil Mike's presentations at Rock Mtn. That was with Fiocchi 1 ounce/7-1/2's at 1170 speed. Breaks were a little weak at the longish ranges but as they say, we don't grade X's on the scoresheet.

frank

click to expand pics
She's the second gun from the end, flanked by a Perazzi, Beretta gas gun and a Charles Daly o/u

Thanks for posting pics of that screamer M12. You know, the older I get the more I love model 12's, not only for their quality of workmanship but also for their pointability and they just look cool.

We really should get a friendly vintage pump event going maybe at Ernie's or Mike's. The 5 stand would be perfect for that. Anyone interested?

Mighty nice lumber for a piece of farm machinery! For most of the time from 1971 to 1977 I shot skeet with Model 12/42s, but none as nice as that.

Very nice model 12!!!!! One of my favorite pump guns.

Thanks everyone, yes Model 12's are excellent guns but not that appreciated nor even understood by many. Walnut, machined steel and hand assembled/fitted to last for your lifetime, your child's and your grandchild's. Daryl, next time I talk with Ernie Hausmann I'll see what we can do to set up a friendly vintage pump gun competition at his Northeast in June. Pre-choke tube guns and shoot what ya brung.

frank

Silvers wrote:Thanks everyone, yes Model 12's are excellent guns but not that appreciated nor even understood by many. Walnut, machined steel and hand assembled/fitted to last for your lifetime, your child's and your grandchild's. Daryl, next time I talk with Ernie Hausmann I'll see what we can do to set up a friendly vintage pump gun competition at his Northeast in June. Pre-choke tube guns and shoot what ya brung.

frank

Sounds great Frank. The tighter the choke the better just to make it interesting.

I like your Winchester M-12 Skeet gun Frank.

I have one too, only mine is in 16 gauge with factory wood and a solid rib. The condition on mine is "as new" except someone felt the need to add a poli-choke to it. I sure wish they had upgraded the wood instead like yours!

Shot my model 12 field grade 16 for skeet today. It was acting up though. It wouldn’t roast after the first shot for doubles. It’s done that be fore. The action slide lock is off? Won’t release the slide?

Woody, I'm pretty familiar with Model 12's and have several I use for hunting and clays. They are very reliable shotguns - the standard for good pump guns since 1912. if I read your post correctly you fire the gun, the slide lock is released and you can't pump the action. If that's the scenario here's what I suggest:

1) Dismount the barrel assembly and check the chamber for gunk buildup, corrosion or pits. You have a 16 bore and a 12-gauge real bronze bore brush (not a modern one with brass-colored plastic bristles) can be used with bore solvent to scrub the chamber and remove buildup. However if pitted you'll probably have to get a gunsmith to polish out as many of the pits as possible while still keeping in chamber measurement tolerances.

2) Try different ammo. Many of the modern shells are made up using hulls with thin walls; in turn they can expand into chamber reamer marks and pits and cause the spent hull to be hard to extract with a pump gun. This wasn't a problem when using paper shells for which the Model 12 was designed.

3) If all else fails I'd get the gun to a good gunsmith.

frank

Silvers wrote:Woody, I'm pretty familiar with Model 12's and have several I use for hunting and clays. They are very reliable shotguns - the standard for good pump guns since 1912. if I read your post correctly you fire the gun, the slide lock is released and you can't pump the action. If that's the scenario here's what I suggest:

1) Dismount the barrel assembly and check the chamber for gunk buildup, corrosion or pits. You have a 16 bore and a 12-gauge real bronze bore brush (not a modern one with brass-colored plastic bristles) can be used with bore solvent to scrub the chamber and remove buildup. However if pitted you'll probably have to get a gunsmith to polish out as many of the pits as possible while still keeping in chamber measurement tolerances.

2) Try different ammo. Many of the modern shells are made up using hulls with thin walls; in turn they can expand into chamber reamer marks and pits and cause the spent hull to be hard to extract with a pump gun. This wasn't a problem when using paper shells for which the Model 12 was designed.

3) If all else fails I'd get the gun to a good gunsmith.

frank

I think the problem is the slide release lever A month ago it was doing the same thing. It was peened over a bit on the end that drops down to let the slide come back. I polished and it ran smooth for awhile. I think the problem is now it’s tweeked a little out of being straight. I plan to have a smith look at it. Was thinking I may even have Simmons put a rib on it? Always wanted a ribbed model 12.


I’ve tried a bunch of different ammo and it’s really clean. That was the first thing I tried When it first starting doing that.

Woody, I don't like Simmons vent ribs because they use round posts. I would only get a rib from them if they could duplicate the original Winchester vent rib.
Jim

The "Winchester Ventilated Rib" as on Frank's gun was only ever offered in 12-gauge on 30-inch trap barrels and 26 3/4 inch skeet barrels. The "Winchester Special Ventilated Rib" (essentially a Simmons) was introduced during 1954 --
Early "Winchester Special Ventilated Ribs" had a round post with the donut base and later they just had a round post. In the January 24, 1955, Winchester catalog, a Model 12, 12-gauge, Skeet Gun with the "Winchester Ventilated Rib" was $204.30; while a Model 12 Skeet Gun in 12-, 20- or 28-gauge with the "Winchester Special Ventilated Rib" was $161.90.

My Model 12/42s with Simmons ribs, installed in the 1970s, have oval posts which look somewhat like the Winchester Ventilated Rib --
For anyone to actually duplicate the "Winchester Ventilated Rib" they would have to machine new barrels with the rib post bases machined integral with the barrel.

Thanks for the info. I have a Simmons rib on a Ithaca 37 thst was my grandfathers. Probably done in 1957-59.

I’m torn on the vent rib by Simmons. The guns in really nice shape. I would Probably look for a more well used one to send them in the future. I probably wil send this gun to them to get it working correctly.

This year my parents bought me a great book for Christmas about the model 12. The Greatest Hamerless Repeating Shotgun Ever-The Model 12 by Dave Riffle. Well worth reading. Lots of good info on options offer over the years.

Thanks Dave for posting that summary. In addition there was a final Winchester M-12 rib that was introduced in 1961. It was named the "New Winchester Ventilated Rib" (note that "Special" wasn't used). Commonly called the 3-pin Duck Bill Vent Rib it was affixed to rectangular posts brazed to the barrel and with dovetails to allow the rib to slide on the posts for heat expansion during heavy firing. This last Winchester vent rib is very similar to the current Simmons offering that has silver-brazed rectangular posts and the Simmons Patent free floating feature. One of my shooting buds just had Simmons put one on a M-12 Field Grade 12-gauge to include complete rebluing. As I recall Lou told me the cost was something like $575., to include shipping both ways. I was impressed with the rebluing; edges of the receiver and barrel legends were nice and sharp.

EDITED to correct free floating info for current Simmons vent ribs.

frank

My buddy just sent me this picture. This fall I had him make me a duck plug for my M-12 heavy duck gun. He made it from aluminum and it weights 3.5 oz. Out of the blue he made some more. Now I have 3 more. I will have to buy a few more model 12’s!!!!