Savage SW
Savage SW
I just finished a 1927 SW and ready for another gun project. Yes I have Fox fever. Friend at a local shop says he has a Savage fox SW. From the serial number sounds like a 1937. Worth spending the money or should I wait for another Philly gun to come along. Is there much difference in quality and value?
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Re: Savage SW
To Phily or Utica, That Is The Question – As with all American doubles earlier the Ansley H. Fox gun the better the workmanship, and quality of wood grade for grade. I have seen some pretty lame very late Utica Fox-Sterlingworths. I haven’t observed that much of a decline in the quality of the graded Ansley H. Fox guns built by Savage. They seem to remain pretty much the same as the late 1920s Philadelphia built guns, except for the uglier profile of some of the top-levers, and the bulkier forearm wood, which some like and some don’t.
The older guns often have more drop at heel than most people like today. The standard drop-at-heel for Philadelphia vintage Sterlingworths was 3-inches for 26-inch (Brush) and 28-inch (Field) barreled guns, and 2 3/4 - inch for 30-inch (Standard) and 32-inch (Trap). Names in () how factory referred to various barrel length Sterlingworths. Stock dimensions were to order on graded guns so anything is possible. I have a 1914 A-grade 12-gauge straight-grip that came from the factory with 2 1/4 inch drop-at-heel. A friend has an AE-grade 20-gauge with 3 1/2 - inch drop-at-heel! All the Savage vintage catalogues list 2 3/4 inch drop-at-heel as standard for all barrel length Sterlingworths. Later guns also tend to have their barrels a little less finely struck and hence weigh a bit more. While the Sterlingworth was always stocked with American Black Walnut (Juglans nigra), pre WW-I graded guns were all stocked in European Walnut (Juglans regia). After WW-I only XE-grade and above were listed in the catalogues with Juglans regia, and by the last Savage catalogue all mention of European Walnut had disappeared.
The change-over was gradual and occurs in 12-gauge guns through serial numbers in the high 12x,xxx range. The earliest Utica marked 12-gauge S-worth I've recorded is 128,419. These early Utica guns are just like late Phily guns with the sleek toplever, slim forearm and capped pistol grip with the flat-topped diamonds for checkering. The barrel markings are in lettering at least twice as large as the Philly S-worths and is something like -- Sterlingworth Fluid Compressed Steel -- Made for Savage Arms Corp., Utica, NY by A.H. Fox -- . I don't have one in front of me so don't hold my feet to the fire on the exact wording. The ugly Savage top lever, the bulky forearm, the coarse pointed checkering, the Special Alloy Forged Steel barrels and the capless pistol grip stocks seem to begin appearing in the 132,xxx range in 12-gauge S-worths. The capless pistol grip is first pictured in the 1937 catalogue. By the 138,xxx range, capped pistol grips begin appearing randomly again!?!
Also you have to remember, that the workers were grabbing parts out of bins and assembling guns. I have a Fox-Sterlingworth Ejector Brush in the 160,xxx range and it has barrels marked Sterlingworth Fluid Compressed Steel, the sleek Philly top lever and safety slide, the bulky forearm and the capped pistol grip stock with the coarse pointed checkering.
In 16-gauge S-worths the change seems to begin appearing in the 367,4xx range, but barrels seem to be still marked Sterlingworth Fluid Compressed steel into the low 370,xxx range. The change over in 20-gauge Sterlingworths seems to be spread out from the low 259,xxx to the high 262,xxx range.
So, the competing factors are... Early gun - better workmanship and wood quality, but short chambers and likely poorer stock dimensions. Later gun - better stock dimensions and modern chamber lengths, but poorer workmanship and lower quality wood.
The older guns often have more drop at heel than most people like today. The standard drop-at-heel for Philadelphia vintage Sterlingworths was 3-inches for 26-inch (Brush) and 28-inch (Field) barreled guns, and 2 3/4 - inch for 30-inch (Standard) and 32-inch (Trap). Names in () how factory referred to various barrel length Sterlingworths. Stock dimensions were to order on graded guns so anything is possible. I have a 1914 A-grade 12-gauge straight-grip that came from the factory with 2 1/4 inch drop-at-heel. A friend has an AE-grade 20-gauge with 3 1/2 - inch drop-at-heel! All the Savage vintage catalogues list 2 3/4 inch drop-at-heel as standard for all barrel length Sterlingworths. Later guns also tend to have their barrels a little less finely struck and hence weigh a bit more. While the Sterlingworth was always stocked with American Black Walnut (Juglans nigra), pre WW-I graded guns were all stocked in European Walnut (Juglans regia). After WW-I only XE-grade and above were listed in the catalogues with Juglans regia, and by the last Savage catalogue all mention of European Walnut had disappeared.
The change-over was gradual and occurs in 12-gauge guns through serial numbers in the high 12x,xxx range. The earliest Utica marked 12-gauge S-worth I've recorded is 128,419. These early Utica guns are just like late Phily guns with the sleek toplever, slim forearm and capped pistol grip with the flat-topped diamonds for checkering. The barrel markings are in lettering at least twice as large as the Philly S-worths and is something like -- Sterlingworth Fluid Compressed Steel -- Made for Savage Arms Corp., Utica, NY by A.H. Fox -- . I don't have one in front of me so don't hold my feet to the fire on the exact wording. The ugly Savage top lever, the bulky forearm, the coarse pointed checkering, the Special Alloy Forged Steel barrels and the capless pistol grip stocks seem to begin appearing in the 132,xxx range in 12-gauge S-worths. The capless pistol grip is first pictured in the 1937 catalogue. By the 138,xxx range, capped pistol grips begin appearing randomly again!?!
Also you have to remember, that the workers were grabbing parts out of bins and assembling guns. I have a Fox-Sterlingworth Ejector Brush in the 160,xxx range and it has barrels marked Sterlingworth Fluid Compressed Steel, the sleek Philly top lever and safety slide, the bulky forearm and the capped pistol grip stock with the coarse pointed checkering.
In 16-gauge S-worths the change seems to begin appearing in the 367,4xx range, but barrels seem to be still marked Sterlingworth Fluid Compressed steel into the low 370,xxx range. The change over in 20-gauge Sterlingworths seems to be spread out from the low 259,xxx to the high 262,xxx range.
So, the competing factors are... Early gun - better workmanship and wood quality, but short chambers and likely poorer stock dimensions. Later gun - better stock dimensions and modern chamber lengths, but poorer workmanship and lower quality wood.
That old Lightner Library serial number chronology that is available various places on the internet is most worthless when it comes to Savage era Fox-Sterlingworths.From the serial number sounds like a 1937.
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