Fox Collectors

Just lately I've had two discussions with friends on this topic and am posting a pic to illustrate what "on the face" means, for those who may be vague on the term. This test is easily done. Just use a candle or old-time kerosene lamp to put a thin coating of soot on the breech faces. Carefully attach barrels and be sure to put on the forend .... particularly important on an Ejector Fox because the ejectors push the barrels away from the face. Open and close the gun softly and only one time. Let the lever snap closed as normal. You should see a contact pattern where the barrels are bearing against the frame. The vertical marks here are from the ejectors but it's the ones around the circumference of both breeches that are important. Now, this Fox was recently rejointed because it was loose, and the contact is pretty good. You should see at least 50% contact on both sides. Good luck!

Be sure to wipe off the soot with a rag or such, and clean the barrel extension and its slot in the frame with a Q tip - before reassembly.

PS: you can use this to check rejointing work, or a gun that's been re-cased because it's common to have the frame warp unless its heavily fixtured during that process.

Frank

Thanks Frank for posting this. I'm assuming then that I could have a gun that locks up tight, but is only making contact in a limited area of the breach face, and by that definition is still off face? I think we use the term "on face" to describe any gun that is tight, but probably shouldn't.

Mike

Yeah Mike, that's correct. Foxes (and other vintage SxS's) will sometimes be seen with lever centered or even right, but with the barrel(s) in limited contact or even off the face by .003” or more. That can be perplexing. But since the bolting system is in adjustment it could be said the gun locks up tight.

So Frank, taking what Mike said about a gun being slightly off face what damage could be done to that gun if it is continually used without being brought back to the condition of the gun in your photo? Is'nt most of the condition of "off face" due to wearing of the bearing surface of the lug and by keeping that well lubricated and clean one could mitigate any further wear? Thanks for the photo illustrating a term that is thrown around and seldom understood.

Daryl, I've never done any extensive shooting of a gun that's off the face, but from what I've read it will get worse. All I know for sure is that it bugs me, and unless the Fox is particularly desirable I'll avoid buying one that needs rejointing. On that line I'm a little surprised, no one commented that the frame shown here has profiled breech balls, i.e., higher grade. It's owned by a friend and I used the pic with his OK.

Frank, I'll film it, you star in the video!! I need your savvy, Sifu!!

Hi Silvers,

Interesting post and you thank for the knowledge. What is the best way to fix this "Off Face," problem. Is it by adding material to the barrel lug and re-machining? Who would you recommend?

Thanks and Best Regards,

Rick, yes imo the best solution is to get the hook overwelded and then machined and fitted to get the barrel breeches back on the face. In the old days, before modern TIG welding, Fox would have fitted an oversize hinge pin. I've now seen that on several Foxes. Sorry, I can't recommend a 'smith because I don't have any current experience having anyone do that work. Perhaps some others will chime in here with recommendations.

Readers: I'm working against deadlines on some things. I'm sorry but I'll have the cut off the questions (to me) here. I just don't have the time to do more Q&A's right now. Thanks for your understanding.