Fox Collectors

At the risk of creating a storm or being banned form the forum, I have a nice, well kept 16 ga Sterlingworth, circa 1927. Mod and Full.
I really want to shoot as a quail/grouse gun. Am I crazy for opening the tubes to Improved and Modified? Will the value be ruined?
Any suggestions on questions I should ask of the gunsmith? What is back-boring?

If I were you Id just use spreader loads...but it is you gun and Im sure Mike Orlen would do a fine job opening up the chokes...back boring is increasing the size of the bore beyond the normally accepted standards....this tends to make whatever the choke constriction is throw even a tighter pattern....and in past days back boring was usually only done to remove pitting from the inside of the barrel tube.....today some makers use what they call back bored [larger than standard bore size] barrels claiming they reduce felt recoil, stabilize the shot better allowing the choke to throw a better pattern....whatever??....

Anything you do to the gun that makes it less original will make it less desirable to a true collector...but to a collector/shooter it might not hurt the guns value very much unless the gun is in factory pristine original condition, in which case you should sell it to a true collector to sit in his safe and go and buy two in almost as nice condition with the procedes to shoot....

The two A-Grade Fox doubles I hunt with the most, have had the chokes opened. My 1913 vintage A-Grade 20-gauge left North 18th Street & Windrim Avenue, full choke in both barrels, but an old Annapolis, Maryland, quail hunter had them opened to .004" amd .016" decades before I got it in 1992. I probably wouldn't have hit these if those chokes were still full --



"Meat-in-the-Pot" my 1914 vintage A-Grade left the factory choked improved modified in both barrels. Right after I got her the summer of 1966, the right barrel was opened to .015".

http://foxcollectors.com/My%20Forum/php ... =25&t=5770

I have used the RST spreaders in my tightly choked guns with great success, a great choice for a hunting gun or occasional target work. If the Sterlingworth is not pristine I do not believe opening the chokes would have much effect on value or saleability.

Something to keep in mind is that Fox Phila and Fox Utica typically used full conical and conical>parallel>conical choke profiles. Even the "Fox Cylinder" choke had a few points of conical constriction right at the muzzle. I've seen it happen so many times, a straight choke section at the muzzle (where the choke had been opened post-factory with a parallel-sided reamer) is a deal killer or big value deduct on what looks to be a high condition Fox. Many Fox nuts now have bore mikes that travel with them to shows and shoots. Pop that mike into the muzzles and it tells the story. Same as Craig's post, RST spreader shells can be a great choice for high condition Foxes with tight chokes, for those situations where you really need that pellet spread. Hunt with nice original condition Foxes? I do it and I know many others that do too. Sure, if drenching rain or slushy snow is falling the Fox sits in its case in the truck. But if conditions are better than that it's out trying to get the game. Those all original guns just conjure up images of days sadly long gone by, especially when hunting. All this is just my take on it fwiw.

Just my $.02. I would pattern the barrels before modifying them. Most of us are quick to assume that the actual patterns are too tight for our needs. Sometimes even seasoned collectors are quick to modify chokes before they test the patterns. I think the Fox factory chokes described above are one of the best features of the Fox design. Most shooting facilities have a patterning "board" and it is easy to do. Kind of fun, actually.

I have a mint Browning Lightning 12 gauge, circa 1934. The gun has the "Twin Single Triggers". The original Full chokes have been opened to Modified and shortened overall. I really wish that had not been done.

My most effective quail gun is a 30" F/F Sterlingworth 12 - really. I am talking western quail shooting in open country. It took me a while to realize why I shoot this gun better than others. I am left-handed and the gun is Cast-On for left-handed shooting. The barrel choke constrictions are just one part of the equation.

I prefer to load my 16 gauge Sterlingworth with a "low-base" cartridge in the more open barrel and a "high-base" cartridge in the Full barrel. These are generic terms of course. I feel this best utilizes the capability of two barrel guns.

Enjoy your Sterlingworth whatever you decide to do with the chokes.

rolesvillerocker wrote:At the risk of creating a storm or being banned form the forum, I have a nice, well kept 16 ga Sterlingworth, circa 1927. Mod and Full.
I really want to shoot as a quail/grouse gun. Am I crazy for opening the tubes to Improved and Modified? Will the value be ruined?
Any suggestions on questions I should ask of the gunsmith? What is back-boring?

I guess I have a different take on the subject on modifying guns, Foxes included. If a gun is less than pristine, a high grade or has historical significance I say modify it to meet your needs after all it is a tool and if it doesn't fit the purpose you need it for it is of less value to you. I have been lucky enough to assemble a number of Fox guns which with the exception of one allows me to select a gun for the season, game or weather conditions when they will be used. The one gun that I have had barrel work done on was rescued from a parts dealer and although it is a brush model was choked full and full. I had the barrels opened to SK 1 and SK 2 and is my go to rough country and bad weather go to gun and accompanies me on all my hunting trips. From the stand point of usability it is more valuable to me than the 32 inch 12 gauge and 16 gauge guns that cost eight to ten times as much that sit in my gun case waiting for the waterfowl hunt that will probably never happen again.

Having owned many s/s and o/u that I have opened the chokes on ,I will never do that again, all you have to do is use Polywad spreaders or RST or make your own using Polywads. My Woodcock gun is a Parker 20ga with F & F chokes that I shoot with Polywad factory shells . The other problem with having the chokes opened is unless a real good gunsmith does it your gun may not shoot to point of aim or the pattern may not be what you had hoped for.

Thanks to all. As this is my first Fox, I'm going to try the patterning and spreader load options first. The gun in nice but probably not what a true collector would call pristine. I've shot it a few times at clays and it mounts and shoots great. But clays don't have feathers or make me cross my eyes when they erupt. . good advice. My first post. enjoy the forum.

....... great opinions & advise boys....well said. +++ on the RST Spreaders from my experience.

tjw

My limited experience with patterning Spred-R loads in my Father's full choke 2-frame Parker Bros. were very patchy patterns. I can't see any reason not to open chokes on "shooter grade" Sterlingworths and A-/AE-Grades.