Fox Collectors

Today I looked at a 12 gauge AE Fox sn is 30600. It may be offered to me by a private party, and as the only Fox I own at present is a Utica mfg. 20 gauge Sterlingworth, I am interested in buying this 12- but there are some issues-- According to the seller, this gun was sent back to Savage pre-WW11 and re-fitted with a new set of 29.5" ejector barrels, and a period AE splinter forearm with the A&D style release. checkering is 20 lpi- and the forearm tip is blunted in radius, as is the one on my 20 Sterly. The buttstock may be original- is has a POW grip uncapped, all the checking is worn off on the left barrel side, and just the tr5aces of the factory checking remain for a outline or pattern on the right barrel side. The original BP and screws are missing. LOP w/0 BP from front trigger is 14" even, DAC is 1 & 13/16, and DAH is 2& 2/8" No cast on or off. With snap caps, safety functions perfectly, trigger pulls are crisp, and the ejectors are in time.

The receiver and top lever and trigger guard bow look to have been re-case hardened, the engraving cuts are crisp and clean, all the screws are timed and un-boogered-

The barrels measure an even 29.5 on my Stanley tape rule, with the solid raised rib akin to that Hunter Arms introduced in 1939 for the fine LC Smith guns ($5.00 option I believe) and single front German silver bead sight- barrels are deep lustre blue, NO dents, dings, bores like mirrors, and with my Brass Galazan plug choke gauge, right barrel is Mod and the left barrel is Full. Barrel stampings are as follows- top right hand barrel at breech- Proof Tested 12 GA. 2 3/4 inch chambers- top left hand barrel breech area-: SAVAGE ARMS CORPORATION below- : CHICOPEE FALLS, and then below that in the third line-- MASS, U. S. A.

Barrel lugs are marked 4W followed by an A SN 30600 as on the receiver and forearm iron, and in script engraving on the trigger guard bow-- Also is the code SRP in an oval, and in lower case a sq, and the following 7 patent dates, first one is Aug 16-1909 and the last ends at June 11-1912.

My guess is- this is an early A grade 12, that was re-fitted by Savage, converted to an AE (the grade marking on the water table is A- not AE- what is puzzling is- why the odd barrel length- 30" all day long, or 28" but these measure dead on the money at 29.5"

Yes, I understand that. However getting photos prior to possibly buying this AE Fox may not be possible. Here is why: (1) I don't have a computerized camera. (2) The private party owner is debating whether or not to sell it- in a private sale to me., it will depend on his mood and the amount of cash money I put on his table. I met him from an farm auction flier, he had some "beater shotguns and rifles" listed, I called him and asked for permission to look them over prior to the auction date, and he agreed.

I am going to digress here, a bad habit of mine I should guess, but there is a point I am trying to make. Being a retired (but still active) UAW Journeyman welder, and living in a heavily rural area has great advantages, that skilled trade gets me access to many private and posted farms -and I take time to have coffee and chat with the farmer and his wife at their table. I missed the auction, but he mentioned a Fox 12 with "refitted" barrels, and after the dust settled, he showed it to me yesterday- let me take it down, measure and get details, and test it with snap caps. I am thinking he may think it is worth $2500 range, I am not so sure about that however. But his wife mentioned a .410 double, and normally I do not get interested in anything except 10 and 12 gauge shotguns- and of course, AH Fox made only 12-16-20, no 28 or .410. He told me it was a Parker with ejectors, didn't know the grade however, and said it was stored in a neighbors gun safe (neighbor is a retired cop) and he will get it for me to examine when I come back to make him an offer on this Fox-

So, wind in the willows, yes- but getting to know the folks with the "rough edges" in rural areas, who will never stroll the greens at the Augusta (GA) National Golf Course or dine at 21 or Tavern on the Green in NYC- sometimes can pay off-

Your efforts will definitely "pay off" if you can purchase that .410 Parker.

I'll "tread with extreme caution" with that, as I am NOT an AHFCA member, and ONLY members are allowed to post guns for sale, or perhaps links to guns for sale-- and as I don't have a Philadelphia lawyer at my beck and call, I am going to play it safe and assume that membership in the AHFCA allows only the sale of AH Fox shotguns, and not those of the "Carriage Bolt" genre.

I have no idea what grade or other specifications exist for this, as yet, "phantom Parker" small (midget?) bore-- but I do know this-- when my farmer friend first told me about this AE "modified" Fox 12- he knew that it had ejectors, and he was right. So, based soley on that fact alone, I have to believe him when he said his Parker smallbore is also an ejector gun. We shall see... But I appreciate your insight Mr. Eightbore!!

I am "on the fence" about joining this Gruppen mit dem Fox/Fuchs Schrottflinten-- I won't post the reasons why I am still debating, but will list them for you in a private e-mail, if you so desire. Let us just say- I am a firm disciple of the wisdom espoused by the late Samuel Langhorn Clemens- especial regarding cats, hot stoves and a return trip to the kitchen.

I visited my old friend and favorite hunting partner today, that being Brad Bachelder in Grand Rapids- and he confirmed just what you said about an AE graded Fox having just the letter A sans the E suffix for an ejector gun- also the forearm iron patent dates tie into those on the water table. A good friend and hunting pal, a retired Judge of Probate hereabouts, has a 12 BE with Krupp Flustahl (Fluid steel for the non-Germanic volk)- and they are choked F&F- and measure the same 29.5" all day long as do these Savage-Utica barrels on the AE in question. Go figure- or measure, whatever is apropos--

I also picked up my copy of the 35th Anniv. Fjestad "Blue Book: from Lori Bachelder today, so I can better research this "modified Fox" as to value in today's market.

I appreciate not only your expertise, but the polite and non-didactic manner in which you relay same vis a vis the written word(s) here. Also your passing up any comments on the "rumored .410 "Carriage Bolted" ejector double. I will believe it when I see it, and not until. But it is nice to know we are allowed to openly discuss other double guns here. I thought it might be a English made Parker-Hale- there is no listing for those in the "Blue Book"- just a reference to a web site- And Brad confirmed to me that he doubted that the lower line Parker_Hale guns had selective ejectors anyway- time will tell.

I recently owned "a large bunch" of original AH Fox barrels "in the white". In the group were about a dozen or so 12ga barrels which measured 29.5". I often wondered why so many at this length.

tjw

Thanks. I am going to see the owner today, and will attempt to take photos of both the Fox 12 AE and the .410 double rumored to be a Parker. My "gut" tells me the later is most likely a PArker-HAle, made in Spain by Urgartechea, but we shall see. May I ask a favor? If I have a problem posting the digital camera photos, can I ask for your assistance? Thanks!!