Fox Collectors

I spend a week or so every October chasing grouse in the Chippewa National Forest in northern Minnesota, and have done so with a Browning Citori O/U for the past 25+ years. As I've grown to appreciate the number of flushes more than the number of birds in the bag (although I still manage my fair share of 5-bird limits), I've also started to have a growing urge to purchase an old, solid SxS.

I think Fox fits the bill, but what is a good model for me to look for. Looking for a solid shooter, without breaking the bank.

Suggestions for model? What can I expect to pay for a solid, functional gun? Where can I look to get a fair price?

All Fox guns made after about 1906 share a common design so the only significant difference in grades is the amount of adornment and quality of the wood. A high condition small bore Sterlingworth can be found at less than $1,800 range for a 16 gauge to $2,500 for a 20 gauge. A very good basic A grade (non-ejector double trigger gun) will be in the 4 to 5K range for a 16 and crazy for a 20 gauge. Expect to pay a premium if you are looking for a 26 inch barrel gun with open chokes, a gun with a single trigger and ejectors. 28 inch guns are far more abundant but they will usually be choked Modified and Full of course a good barrel man can open them up to whatever choke that suits your needs. Oh yes you will want a 16 gauge of course.

ebranger,

You didn't say what gauge you're looking for. Makes a big difference price wise. Expect to pay from 50% to 100%, or more, for a 16 or 20 compared to a 12.

Be aware that older US made doubles, including Philadelphia Foxes, in 16 and 20 gauge may have short chambers. Limits what you might want to shoot and how much.

You don't say what part of the country you're from but if there are any classic side by side shoots near by, often there are dealers selling doubles there. An example, next weekend near Friendsville PA the Northeast Classic Side by Side Shoot will be held. There will be a multitude of dealers selling their wares. I would guess there will easily be more than one hundred SXS's for sale in all range of prices. And usually, there will be collectors groups there as in Frindsville PA this next weekend. Great source of information.

Also, will you be looking for an all original gun? Likely to cost more (and worth it) compared to one that's been monkeyed with: ie, refinished wood or metal, shortened barrels or stock, dents and pits in the bore, etc.

What's your budget?

Hope this helps.

Jolly

If you want to dip your toes in the water economically your best bet is a Fox Sterlingworth extractor gun in 12 gauge with 28" barrels. Those in really nice condition are running around $800. You most likely will have to add a pad to get a normal length of pull (14.5") and probably have the stock bent up (it will have too much drop) and the chokes opened up (they will probably be full/mod). That work will probably run circa $400. That will probably provide you a gun that weighs anywhere from 6 lb 12 oz to 7 lb 2 oz (give or take a few ounces). Good way to dip your toes in the water.

Small bores cost lots lots more. Also if your not a collector but want a nice shooter, don't overlook guns that have been restocked with modern dimensions. They might be a good deal for a shooter because they have a much better chance of being shootable as they exist with no work. Also, don't overlook an early gun that has no case color and a few dings and scrapes. There are still some well used small bores out there for good prices. They may have a repair here and there, barrels redone and not look quite so pretty, but they will still do the job.

Beware, these suckers are addictive. I once had 5 Merkels. They are now gone. I once had 4 Parkers. They are now gone (except one). I've got several Foxes now including four 12 gauges, when I thought I'd never own more one 12 gauge and that would be for turkeys/waterfowl only. Addictive they are.

Tell us what gauge, weight, and barrel length you prefer for more help. Is the 12 gauge unacceptable? It would be for me if I were carrying it over rough country for days at a time.

A 16 gauge sterlingworth is hard to beat for an upland hunting gun.Most weigh from 6 to under 6 1/2 lbs.A late Utica sterlingworth probably can be found with drop around 2 1/2 inches at heel.Most Philly sterlingworths have around three inches of drop at heel. Bobby

Thanks for all the replies! A restocked gun, to modern dimensions, in a 16-gauge would be perfect. Need open chokes. Full chokes for grouse hunting are a nightmare. Aside from shows, where is a good place to start a search. Gun brokers.com seems like it's tough to know what you're actually getting.

Oh, forgot to add that since this is my first SxS, I'd like to keep under the $800 range, if at all possible and upgrade once I'm hooked.

If you are from Minnesota you can bop over to Wisconsin in 2 weeks and attend this SxS shoot.
I'm sure there will be guns for sale. Most shooters will also let you fondle their firearms where you can get a feel for what's comfortable with regard to weight and length.

http://mrcsportsmansclub.com


This 16 gauge event is over but here is contact info from the chap in the twin cities.
He might give you some leads.


http://bbs.shootingsportsman.com/showth ... t-16-Shoot


Vernal

Not actually from minnesota. I'm in maryland. That show in PA next week sounds awesome, but unfortunately, I won't be able to make it. Wish I'd know about it sooner so I could have arranged to get there!

[quote="ebranger"]Oh, forgot to add that since this is my first SxS, I'd like to keep under the $800 range, if at all possible and upgrade once I'm hooked. [/q

8 bills will certainly buy a decent shooter grade 12ga.Phila.Sterly. Remember, you're buy the barrels. At 800 it may likely have plenty of "character marks" already. To some these are flaws but to others they tell a story of days enjoyed (or not*) afield.Since its your first sxs, my advice fwiw is to not get discouraged if you dont hit everything you shoot at from the start. Some gents have trouble with the wide sighting plane. By the way--you're already hooked. Best to embrace that right now




*Had an old Sterly for awhile that had a #2 shot embedded in the stock. yikes

setterspell wrote:Since its your first sxs, my advice fwiw is to not get discouraged if you dont hit everything you shoot at from the start.

Ha! If I hit everything I shot at, I'd start to get a little suspicious!

And as long as everything is solid and functional, character marks don't bother me. I've have the same 12 gauge for waterfowl and 20 gauge for upland game that I got when I was maybe 12 or 14 years old. Trust me, they've got plenty of character marks.

When I still had setters and grouse hunted it was 30 years ago .
Then I used a Browning Citori Upland Special 16 gauge most of the time , although I have a Westley Richards 12 gauge boxlock I also carried a bit .

Now I no longer have the Browning but the Westley Richards is still with me . Since that time I've added a Parker GH 16 damascus , a Utica Fox A Grade 16 , a pair of Philly Sterlingworth 20's and a Philly Sterlingworth 12 . All of these have what I call bird chokes IC/M or less .

Oh yeah also have a very nice LC Smith Ideal 12 gauge 26" IC/M that'll do the job .

I however would love to find LC Smith Ideals in 16 and 20 that are 26" IC/M that I think the price is reasonable .

Without a doubt I hold Parker's in the highest regard between Parker/Fox/Smith . And I suspect deep down I hold the Smith in higher regard then the Fox but thats mostly because Fox didn't make a 10 gauge . Now with all that being said I still like all three makers period !

So then if I didn't have what I have and was intrested to get my first grouse side by I'd look pretty hard for a Parker VH , Fox A or a LC Smith Ideal in 16 gauge with 26" IC/M barrels . And I wouldn't turn my nose up at a Trogan or Sterlingworth 16 in the 26 IC/M configuration as well .

I've owned my 16 and 12 Sterlys for years now and have taken many quail and dove. After shooting the 12 the 16 feels like I'm carrying a .410 in the field. It's IC and M and it's my choice over any LC or Parker for an upland hunter. I hunt with a lot of guys with pretty guns and mine shoots as good or better! It's funny because they always want to touch and fondle my Fox. My 12 is a little heavier with 30" barrels, but if you're just standing in one place you don't notice the weight. With M and F it will reach out 55 to 60 yds. with 1 ounce reloads. Take your time and look around, lots of choices, lots of Foxes!

Sent you a PM on a possibility.