A GRADE #15XX

[edgood]

RECENTLY CAME INTO POSSESSION OF A GRADE #15XX. THIS IS THE EARLIEST A GRADE I HAVE SEEN OR HEARD OF. THIS IS NOT A PHILADELIA ARMS MARKED GUN. IT IS STAMPED "A.H. FOX GUN CO. PHILA. PA." ON THE LEFT BARREL. ANY OTHERS OF SIMILAR VINTAGE OUT THERE?

[Silvers]

I've seen a SCREAMER A Grade straight-grip that is 139x. Probably ordered as a live bird gun. 1-weight tubes, knockout wood with only 2" drop. Ansley sure knew how to make em. Last I heard the gun wasn't for sale.

[edgood]

when do you suppose these 1000 series guns were made?

[George Lander]

According to Mike's book they were made at the Wayne Junction address.

Best Regards, George

[Researcher]

The earliest A.H. Fox Gun Co. advertising to be found to date is from 7 October 1905 --



I've seen pictures of A.H. Fox Gun Co. Ansley H. Fox double serial number 2. I've seen and handled 8, 35, 75 and have pictures of other two and low three-digit serial number guns. You can get a bit of an idea by the Patent dates on the watertable. The earliest guns only have the one Patent Date --



which indicates to me they were made in late 1905. I have seen very few guns with three-digit serial numbers. The only one I have notes on was 975 a C-Grade I looked at at a gun show in the Shenendoah Valley a couple three decades ago, and my notes aren't real detailed. A year or two ago, Jay Shacter had serial number 1025 for sale and it still had its original hang-tag with it which had the Wayne & Bristol Streets address.





By serial number 1327 the watertables have three Patent Dates, which indicates to me production in 1906 --



I don't have enough information on these early two-, three- and low four-digit serial number guns. In what serial number range do the 1902 and 1904 Patent Dates from Philadelphia Arms Co. begin appearing on the watertables of A.H.Fox Gun Co. Ansley H. Fox doubles? A.H. Fox Gun Co. bought the remains of Philadelphia Arms Co. in late 1906 and moved into their factory. When did they start adding the Philadelphia Arms Co. Patent Dates to their guns? More data points and research is needed.

I don't recall ever seeing an Ansley H. Fox double with a serial number in the 3xxx, 4xxx or 5xxx range. Anyone have any examples to share?

[Researcher]

A bit more research and I find serial number 2963 still has the three Patent Dates, indicating to me a gun built during 1906.



I also see in my notes that I did examine an FE-Grade serial number 3000 at the 2002 Vintage Cup at Sandanona on Butterfields tables, but no notes on the Patent Dates on that gun. I have a picture of the watertable of FE-Grade serial number 7200, and it only has the three Patent Dates but they are engraved, not roll-stamped, so I'm not sure they are representative of regular production by that serial number range.



All this is getting my mind churning. What is the possibility they built guns up to about serial number 3000 at Wayne & Bristol Streets in 1905 and 1906, then started with serial numbers in the 7xxx range when they moved into the factory at North 18th Street & Windrim Avenue? Anyone out there got guns in the 3xxx, 4xxx, 5xxx or 6xxx serial number range? I just don't have notes on or pictures of any.

[fox-admin]

Dave: Very interesting theory, I do not have any notes on any 3xxx to 6xxx. I highest number I have recorded under 7xxx is 2924. Craig

[xewizzard]

This is a very interesting thread. Thanks guys. I recently examined an A grade 15XX in a small store. As much as I wanted to take it home I passed. The old butt stock is a replacement and the barrel/forend lug is loose. By loose I mean that it falls out of the barrels when the forend is removed! Barrels are off face of course but when assembled the gun appears functional. If I see it again I will note the patent dates now that I know what to look for.

[Parker16]

Dave, Years back I owned B Grade number 222 12 gauge 30" gun with a round knob grip.

[MARSHFELLOW]

Interesting theory Dave. I have not seen/heard of any Fox guns in the serial number ranges that you specify. May make an interesting question for Mr. Callahan... to see if he has had any inquiries on guns in those ranges.

tjw

[jolly bill]

Yes, interesting theory. I looked at my listing of encountered Fox guns and I have no numbers in that range. Yes, wonder if Mr. Callahan has had requests for those guns?

Jolly

[SmithShady]

I've got 2735, also a 1906 Gun.

Mike

[DarylC]

I've got 2 A grades, 1448 and 9520 both with the 3 patent dates. The wood and craftsmanship on those early guns is superb.