Fox Collectors

For myself, the first time I ever shot a shotgun was about 1990 when I was about 42. A friend was throwing clays from a simple trap and I had my dad's A5. So I took it out and tried it. I've been hooked ever since. Yes, I led a neglected childhood as I was never taken hunting.

In the late 90s I was averaging about 15K - 18K targets a year, about 3K of which were registered targets. In '97 and '98 I shot in the SXS event at the nationals. Didn't win anything, but I had a good time. I did shoot the XE in some local shoots, and won class with it a couple of times. In 2000 I quit shooting, cold turkey, because I decided it was the only way I was going to be a dad to my kids, who lived 200 miles away at that time. It boiled down to one or the other. I've only started shooting again in the last couple of years.

I know that's probably more than anyone wanted to know.

As far as shooting targets now, I wouldn't want to discourage anyone, but I think it would problematical relative to 10 or 15 years ago. That is, if one wanted to compete seriously to win.

The problem is that targets at many shoots, especially major shoots, are far more technical than they were before. In the early to mid 90s, most of the local shoots (at least around Dallas) were with hand traps and the creativity of presentation was sorely limited. You couldn't throw the type of targets in that environment that you can now. I was watching the Compac event at the 2005 Nationals, at which I spent the afternoon as a spectator only, and was astounded at the difficulty and distance of the targets.

People like Doug Vine, who I believe won this years Vintage Cup, might be able to shoot such targets effectively with a SXS, but I don't believe even he would be competitive at a tough NSCA shoot with it, especially a major. (Doug, by the way, was about 5th or 6th in the "World All Around", sponsored by Scott Robertson this year. Digweed won.)

To evaluate one's own opportunity with success in shooting a SXS competitively, I have two shot setups you can set up as a test, both with break points at 50 yrds.... The first setup is a 70 degree rise quartering away teal, which has to be taken on the rise to have time for a 2nd target. The 2nd a similar teal, but haveing to be taken as the 2nd target after it peaks and is well on the drop. A third set up might involve a quartering away tower shot with a 60 to 70 yrd break point. I've seen each of these in the last year or two. Typically, these type shots require precision that most of us mortals need all the help we can get on. And a long barreled auto or O/U just has a much more precise "pointer" than a SXS at longer distances.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with shooting such targets for experince or fun. And, there's many registered shoots which don't don't have shots with that difficulty. I shoot my XE when I'm not worried about showing up "down the list". Plus, a lot of younger shooters really go nuts over cool old guns.

That's my two cents, anyway.

We'll find out what can be done with a side by side in competition when Tony Galazan puts a Master Class NSCA competitor out on the "tour" with one of his Foxes or Model 21s. I would assume a two barrel set, 32" and 34" with high ventilated ribs will take care of all targets, including the 60 and 70 yard shots. The recent all around shotgun championship proved that there is more to shooting a shotgun than winning consistently in one discipline. I'm sure that Tony Galazan would be willing to sponsor the entry expenses in that shoot, if it were held again, if the side by side could be compared to the over under as a competition gun. Tony must have an interest in the question since he does mention Hal Hare and his competition wins in his advertising.

eightbore wrote:We'll find out what can be done with a side by side in competition when Tony Galazan puts a Master Class NSCA competitor out on the "tour" with one of his Foxes or Model 21s. I would assume a two barrel set, 32" and 34" with high ventilated ribs will take care of all targets, including the 60 and 70 yard shots. The recent all around shotgun championship proved that there is more to shooting a shotgun than winning consistently in one discipline. I'm sure that Tony Galazan would be willing to sponsor the entry expenses in that shoot, if it were held again, if the side by side could be compared to the over under as a competition gun. Tony must have an interest in the question since he does mention Hal Hare and his competition wins in his advertising.

Now a gun like that might work out ok. But my response, of course, was based on standard older configurations which don't include high vent ribs, single triggers perhaps, proper chokes, custom stocks, et al. Most old doubles sitting in gun safes around the country simply aren't set up for hard core competition. I"ve long wanted to tighten the chokes up on my XE, either with Briley thinwall tubes (figuring if they're good enough for H&H, they're probably good enougth for Fox) or by having Briley do fixed choke inserts reamed to about 20 and 30. But, although Perazzi sells a lot of M/IM fixed choked guns, you see few shooters actually at the top shooting them. Even Wendell Cherry's 34" Perrazi has tubes (at least it did) - although I'm not sure anyone's ever seen him actually change them.

No doubt a gun described by eightbore will do the trick in the right hands, I just didn't realize that's what we were talking about. But even having said that, top shooters have one goal, and that's to win. If they have any thought at all that a SXS won't work for them, they won't use it.

I'll be sure to keep my eye out for one of Galazan's guns at the World All Around next year, with camera in hand.

As scarce as 32" vent rib Parkers and Smiths are, somehow most of the serious competitors at the Smith versus Parker shoot at Sanford seem to have been able to locate one if that's what they want to shoot. Some high scoring shooters seem to be able to get by without the vent ribs and single triggers but the long barrels seem to be universally in style. The regulars at our little pigeon club seem to be quite happy to shoot side by sides, winning as many races as the over under shooters. Some switch back and forth, one to the other and don't seem to suffer much. Of course they aren't making their living shooting the game. Now the big question is "Which of us are making our living shooting NSCA???" Miss an occasional bird with a side by side___who cares?

I agree with Silvers about the choice of Fox for semi serious competition. A 30" Sterlingworth is quite easy to find, also quite easy to convert to a serious using gun once you have the stockmaker situation under control. My present project gun is a low mileage early A with throwaway wood. It is a non ejector 30" gun with #3 barrels, heavy enough for a sporting gun. We are better off without ejectors if we can stand to live without the convenience. I don't think there is a part of a Fox that will limit its trouble free nature unless it is auto ejectors or a single trigger. My A will not be modified from its .040 chokes, so it will be mostly a pigeon gun when finished, so ejectors are quite unneccesary. Try to pick a low mileage, tight project gun even if it is covered with rust. A friend beginning a project recently got a $500 bill for getting the action of the gun "up to spec" and he hasn't started the project yet.

Bill, I'm glad to hear you're pumped up on your Becker inspired Fox project. I had a chance to shoot a graded gun today with the filing around the breech balls to match up with the barrels. It was the first time I looked down the rib with that setup and I came away really pumped myself. Sorry it's not my gun so I don't have any pics of the breech area. Keep us up to speed on your project! Frank

Hauntfox, for most of us, you'll have to post a picture of the clays cart. Then we can give you suggestions. When I shot competitive NSCA (and earlier, USSCA) birds, we carried our guns, but I realize today is a different world. However, a couple of weeks ago, for the first time in several years, I walked around at PG with a few of my old time shooting buddies while they mostly rode the cart. I shot my old reliable PHE Parker Trap and they shot, well, you know what they shot. I shot an 80, was very surprised. You know what they shot (no, it was not 80). I'm not dead yet.

The Ruggend Gear racks have a clamp thingy on the upper mount which allows you to move the barrel clamp in any direction you want in a nano second. I can switch it back and forth easily between any barrel type.

I also recommend the Dr Pepper!