Fox Collectors

While reading through old posts there seems to be two opinions on these Fox's.
Some prefer to keep the fox "as is" with its history of stock scratches and dings, while other prefer a full restoration to like new quality with new or repaired wood and fresh case color treatment.
Maybe the difference in philosophy is determined by those who are Fox collectors vs those who have their guns as users?

I'd like some opinions from y'all on this as I just got my first fox 16 ce, which in good shape, but may want to re-do everything, especially since the stock is 2 inches too short, but has beautiful wood. Drop and cast are good.
Should I add a 2 inch pad and keep it "original" , but would look funny, or just restock it to my specs and save the original wood for a collector should It ever be resold, which I'm not planning to do.
Cost of a new fitted stock/restoration is not an issue.
This gun will be a user for pheasants and prairie grouse in the open fields.


Vernal

I had the same choice to make with my XE. With mine, the wood was also too short but was solid. It looked like it was carved from a railroad tie, however. It was blackened by years of oil and dirt and use. The original pad was shot and hard as a rock.

I had Craig Libhart of Susquehanna Stockworks refinish and lengthen the stock, then add a recoil pad. He did a fantastic job and at the end of the day, the extension could always be removed if someone wanted it the original length. Refinishing is not for everybody and in the end the decision is yours to make. I did leave the metal alone on mine.

I have 4 AH Fox shotguns and use them for hunting. I prefer the look of the original gun. Jim

My opinion:

Leave the original finishes as they are.
A wooden stock extension can be done for a few hundred dollars.
If you want a new-looking gun with a stock made to your dimensions just order a new gun from Galazan or AYA.

Or course the gun is yours to do with as you wish.

I like original as long as the gun is sound in all respects. If a gun has issues such as barrel dents, damaged stock, etc, then restoration/refinishing is warranted by a qualified gunsmith.

just me, I can see refinishing wood if need be, rebluing barrels if in bad shape, but just dont care too much for re-case coloring. My A 16 had wood grayer than an old locust post, a slip on pad, and barrels that looked like old galvanized pipe. The wood was refinished, barrels reblued, but left the reciever as is.

I have a 16 ga CE that is being restored as we speak. The case colors were removed by someone down the line and the receiver looked almost nickel. The rest of the gun is in good shape but me personally I just did not like the nickel look to the gun. IF the case colors were naturally worn and had patina I would have left them. I also prefer the natural look of the gun if it continues to look good. If you choose to restore the gun pay the money to have it done right. The restoration I am having done will almost cost as much as I paid for the gun.

If you have the funds, keep the original stock as is and restock it so it fits you. IMO the guns are for using and you can use a gun much better if it fits you. I'd get a factory letter first before I did any mods just to to see who owned the gun. Maybe Mickey Rooney owned the gun and needed a 12.5" lop. Never know till you get a letter.

The barrels were already reblued when it arrived.
Case color faded but visible in some areas.
Nice colorful wood, just too short to shoot by 2 inches.

Amarillo Mike and Mills, I understand where you are coming from.
I actually considered a bespoke AYA or Garbi before researching and deciding on a Fox.
These new Spanish guns have gone way out of site with regard to price, and lose 50% value after the first shot.
I've known about your gun for years from McIntosh's writings. Owning and Shooting a piece of history makes having a Fox more emotional , rather than just a pretty tool with which to kill a bird. Pride in ownership and a sense of responsibility to preserve the history, I guess is what is meant.

3birddogs, you did your gun just right and brought it back to life. It's a happy gun now.
Milrob, thanks for the advice.
The natural look of this gun is quite nice so the receiver won't be redone. I've decided.
You, mike, 3bd, ROMAC, Jim, have convinced me to leave the receiver alone. It has soul now, it needs to be kept soulful.

Vaturkey, I'm with you on stock fit. This gun will be used to do the job for which it was intended and I want to enjoy success while playing with it. There will probably be a 1500 or more cartridges put through it per year. I can't shoot that much with a poor fit. Does RST have 16ga volume discounts?
If we can add length to the current stock and still make it look decent then that's what will be done. ROMAC, your stock looks great!
But, If the stock maker has any hesitation about it, then there will be no other choice-- it'll have to be restocked, and the one hunnert year old wood will be saved for the museum.


Nice website, nice advices, and swell Chaps in this club.


Vernal

Vern,
good luck with the gun, and if you get a chance put up a few pictures for us. Lots of really knowledgable people here( I'm not one of them) to give you feedback and help.

Hire the best you can find to do the work. I highly recommend Susquehanna Stockworks.

If you decide to do an extension you might talk with Mark Larson; he's done some amazing things and can make the extension invisible.

http://www.marklarsongunart.com/#!grain ... -portfolio

I would give the Mark Larson system a shot before spending four grand on a restock. I have a couple of short guns that would benefit from his work. Craig is a friend and a great stockmaker, but does not do an extension that hides the joint. Mark Larson does attempt to hide the joint.

Vernal pike wrote: There will probably be a 1500 or more cartridges put through it per year. I can't shoot that much with a poor fit. Does RST have 16ga volume discounts?



Nice website, nice advices, and swell Chaps in this club.


Vernal

Vernal RST makes some fine ammo but if you are going to shoot that much you really ought to consider reloading.

[*]Larson's website won't open up on an iPad. I'll have to find a regular computer. The ideal scene would be to use the original wood.

With regard to reloading, back in my competitive sporting clays days I'd shoot 15,000 - 20,000 shells per year. Spent a lot of time at the Spolar Power Reloader. My wife, who doesn't understand our obsessions, said, "Why don't you just go to Walmart and buy shells." In a way she was right, how much time was I spending reloading, even with a progressive hydrolic reloader!
So I became friends with the Kent cartridge rep and just had the semi drop off a few dozen flats at a time. Less stress that way.

Then one October a number of years ago, I was all excited getting prepared for a big time national FITASC tournament in North Carolina at Rose Hill Farm. They were having the British come over to set the targets. My lovely supportive spouse casually mentioned, " Vernal, you are never home."- You know, again she was right. I had a career and two little daughters that were being neglected with this hobby. I would practice Wednesday and Friday then go to a tournament on the weekends or back to practice again at the club. And it was a 1-2 hour drive to the gun club depending on which one was chosen.

Anyway, I left Thursday headed to North Carolina for the 3 day FITASC tournament. Come Sunday morning I'm on the first peg ready to call for the target and thought, ,"I don't want to be here. I'd rather be home with my wife and two baby's."
So I told the Guys on my squad that I quit, I'm not shooting anymore. Went home and put up the Perazzi. That was about 8 years ago.

A man has to do something so I took up Dutch Oven cooking. That's an activity which can be done from home and still be outdoors. Joined the International Dutch Oven Society and began cooking away. I'm "The Cookie" at deer camp cooking over the open far so the vittles are done when the boys come in from the woods at lunch and dinner. It's fun to hang around the camp far cooking and drinking beer in mid November. Everybody knows that I like to bird hunt and would ask why I didn't hunt deer.
The answer is that I like to shoot too much. I want to shoot 300 shells at an outing, not just once at a deer.
The best vacation I ever had was dove shooting with Gil Ash and his students in Mexico. Our sporting clays group shot about 5000 doves per day there. After our evening shoot they made margarita's for us out in the desert with a chain saw motor blender. Never been to Argentina but Mexico has to be just as good and closer to travel.

I'm getting to how this all relates to obtaining my first Fox, just hold on and stay with me. It's actually due to the Culligan man and Oprah.

This past June our water softener went out and the Culligan man came over. It was a Saturday morning. This guy is an avid fisherman and he knew that I had just come back from a fishing trip to Devils lake in North Dakota. He talked about this place where he goes fishing in Ontario. I like to fish but I'm not into it like shooting and bird hunting. So I asked, "any grouse up there?" He said, " my gosh, the grouse up there are thick as sparrows down here." After we picked out our water softener and the Culligan man left, I looked up this Ontario camp on the internet then sat down beside my lovely bride on the sofa to watch Oprah reruns with her. This is a true story.

While watching Oprah together she asked if I was going to hunt grouse at that place in Canada this fall. I said, "No, it's not fun without a bird dog, I've done it before without a dog and it just isn't as much fun. I'll stay home and work."
She said," work and sitting in that hole on the couch is about all you do. You're in a rut. Why don't you get yourself a bird dog." The girls are teenagers now and off doing their teenage stuff.
----Oprah makes women so agreeable. You should try it some time with your wife. Sit and watch Oprah with her, and then inquire about that new bass boat you want!---

So last summer we did research and got ourselves a Dashing Bondhu Llewellen Setter pup. His name is George and will be going to bird dog school for three months this summer in Tennessee. Then in late September we are off to Ontario. Now, with a new bird dog it is a mandatory requirement to have proper bird dog guns!

Back to guns.
I have a 28 gauge Arietta for the woodland birds but "needed" something bigger for pheasants and sharptails. Target guns are obviously too heavy to lug around all day so the search was on for a new gun, hence the Fox. It's a 16 ga @ 6 lbs.

So that's how it came to be about getting into your Fox club. It's all because of the Culligan man and Oprah.

It's the accessories that go along with a bird dog that are most important. George will be a better bird hunter with a Fox in my hands!



Vernal Pike