Fox Collectors

I have just bought Marshfellow's orphaned early style CE barrels and need them fitted to my gun. It's close, but there's a little too much light coming through the barrel flats. Tom W. has already given me one name in NY State, but I would like to consider several.

The barrels, BTW, are absolutely perfect. The breech engraving is more extensive and better executed than my originals.

Thanks for your help,

Frank

Do the barrels match the contor of the action and does the barrel extension mate up with the top of the action properly?

#1-yes
#2-yes but the action doesn't close

I got into this myself because I couldn't find a gunsmith who could get BOTH barrels (right and left) against the standing breech, despite two attempts on each of two Foxes. And both those were rejointing of the original barrel, not trying to fit a different one. The only commercial gunsmith I could have recommended is now out of business, and sorry, I don't have any experience with anyone else. However here are some thoughts that may be helpful.

Let me start by saying I worked in my cousin's machine shop part time while in school, and nowadays have access to a large machine shop with modern machine tools. I've fitted many Fox barrels to different frames but for various reasons I don't do that work for others. Thus I am not soliciting work by posting here. To fit a replacement barrel, the barrel fitter must consider the overall geometry of the barrels and of the frame, and there is way more to it than measuring the distance from the axis of the barrel hook, to the standing breeches. As machinists would say, that's the X dimension. Another other critical variable is the Y dimension - which is the positioning of the barrel hook axis relative to the top of the barrels, barrel extension and tops of the breech balls. There is also the Z axis which is the parallelism of the hook radius with the barrel breeches. After careful study I believe Fox held the barrels and frame in a fixture and line-bored the frame and barrels for the hinge pin - which accounts for slight variances in the positioning of the X, Y and Z axes from gun to gun. Several thou +/- makes a huge difference in barrel fit when trying to swap barrels to a different frame. The barrelsmith needs a lot more than a tig welder, smoke lamp and file. Yep I've looked at many Foxes and other makers over the years where the owner gent was happy with his rejointed gun because the barrels snapped down and gun went boom when triggers were pulled, but often the work was sloppy and I knew problems would be coming up after a few years' use.

Here's my recommendation when interviewing a barrelsmith to do this work. Tell him you will smoke the standing breech and check the barrel fit after he completes his work, and you'll be looking for about 75% contact minimum on both barrels, along with zero filing of the standing breech(es). Further that you'll close and open the barrels one time only, not multiple times while slamming the gun closed. The man who can guarantee he'll be able to do that is the one to choose. Ask him for some pics of his work. Talk is cheap.... choose carefully.... it's easy to goof up an expensive barrel. So, the guy returns your money after goofing up your barrel or frame, and you're worse off than before. I personally wouldn't go with a barrelsmith who will not absolutely, positively warranty his work as suggested and can send you pics to prove it. Here's a pic that may be helpful..... a one time close and open cycle.

Frank

Silvers wrote:After careful study I believe Fox held the barrels and frame in a fixture and line-bored the frame and barrels for the hinge pin - which accounts for variances in the positioning of the X, Y and Z axes from gun to gun. Several thou +/- makes a huge difference in barrel fit when trying to swap barrels to a different frame.

And looking at it from an ease of manufacturing view, it makes a lot of sense to do it that way. Very interesting post Frank.

Thank you, Frank S. for taking the time for that great post. One thing I didn't understand was this part:

"Further that you'll close and open the barrels one time only, not multiple times while slamming the gun closed."

Thanks,

Frank P.

Thanks gents for the feedback. Multiple closings/openings will cause the smoke to show more contact than there actually is because the carbon soot gets displaced to surrounding areas. It's even worse to slam the gun shut because the frame bar (water table) is "sprung" when that's done, and the smoke will show way more contact area. Just (one) normal closing and opening cycle is enough to show barrel breech contact or lack thereof.

Frank

Very very interesting to a "non-technical" collector like myself. Thanx.

t

Don't expect to find someone who will be able to do that. Much less perfection is acceptable for guns with mismatched parts. Guns with mismatched barrels often display a bit of light in one or the other barrel, but are very acceptable for shooting.

Frank; Thank you for the post. I learned a lot from it.
Mike

Frank, as others have said, thanks for taking the time to post the pictures and write up this explanation. I always learn so much from posts like this. I'm sure I'll come back to it when I look for someone to marry the extra 32" barrels I have to my XE. Even if perfection isn't possible, I'd bet that relaying these expectations will help to weed out the folks you don't want doing this work, which I think is the goal here.

Mike